Ghost Overtime

psyCrowe · Post by **psyCrowe** » 28 Mar 2016, 09:37

I see no problem with ghost overtime. Walks in our office were annihilated after the revision, some too small, most too big. Most guys aren't interested in doing extra bits of walks as they extend on their own. If I really don't want to do extended overtime on another walk, then surely it has to be worth my while? Where is the harm in getting paid 6 hours, for 1 hour worth of work? If the managers are desperate enough, then they will pay it.
If you are doing any extended overtime, then always arrange your rate/payment before doing it.
You'll no doubt get the "you're being unreasonable" chat, but you have the power in this situation. Don't be bullied, or guilt tripped into doing something you don't want to do. I know certainly in our office they have the cash available as we are so short staffed, guys got tired of making buttons and started to realise they had more bargaining power.

Is there something wrong with that?

motherhubbard · Post by **motherhubbard** » 28 Mar 2016, 11:26

psyCrowe wrote:
Is there something wrong with that?

If people can go in and negotiate their own overtime rates, what exactly is the point of having a union. Why do I pay my subs?
People making their own special deals ultimately undermines the union.
That is what is wrong with it.

If you don't like the pay rate on offer then don't do the overtime.
Ultimately they will have to employ more people (or the same number of people on better contracts.)

motherhubbard · Post by **motherhubbard** » 28 Mar 2016, 12:43

Do the people who negotiate their own overtime hourly rate think it would be acceptable for someone to undercut them?
What if someone walked into the DO and said to the DOM - see his job. I'll do it for £2/hour less.

What is wrong with that?

psyCrowe · Post by **psyCrowe** » 29 Mar 2016, 08:25

motherhubbard wrote:Do the people who negotiate their own overtime hourly rate think it would be acceptable for someone to undercut them?
What if someone walked into the DO and said to the DOM - see his job. I'll do it for £2/hour less.

What is wrong with that?

I agree with you in principle, but very few in my office are willing to do the overtime, so we don't have that problem.
If nobody done the overtime ( morning and/or extended ) then our office would crumble. It's also seen as industrial action ( working to rule / overtime ban ), so I don't know how that would go down. Too many guys further down the pecking order who would veto an overtime ban due to the prospect of them getting full time non existent. For someone like me though, who is within touching distance, it makes sense. Me and a few other senior part timers would suck up all the morning overtime into our contracts, leaving no morning ( gold ) overtime for anyone, only extended. If the managers signed up to that, they would be opening a huge tin of worms.

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 21 Apr 2016, 13:04

NewPostieUK wrote:
bensonhedge wrote:I do ghost most days,wouldn't do extra loops for them if it meant going over my time.
This is outrageous and makes me sick. Your manager should be sacked.

Most people struggle to finish on time, go over just to complete and struggle to get paid for that extra time taken, yet you get given money for nothing.

Really you find that outrageous? you commit fraud with regards to election payments and you are outraged by a situation where by ghost overtime may be legally being used!!

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 21 Apr 2016, 22:28

zx135 wrote:
Really you find that outrageous? you commit fraud with regards to election payments and you are outraged by a situation where by ghost overtime may be legally being used!!

I claim overtime when I go over. It's ridiculous to expect me to know which letters are responsible for going over. They all are.

By your thinking,(and apparently, by official and union backed thinking) everyone who claims overtime on a day when they've delivered election material, even if it's one single item, has committed fraud.

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 21 Apr 2016, 23:27

NewPostieUK wrote:
zx135 wrote:
Really you find that outrageous? you commit fraud with regards to election payments and you are outraged by a situation where by ghost overtime may be legally being used!!
I claim overtime when I go over. It's ridiculous to expect me to know which letters are responsible for going over. They all are.

By your thinking,(and apparently, by official and union backed thinking) everyone who claims overtime on a day when they've delivered election material, even if it's one single item, has committed fraud.

by my thinking? I ve not said that said that in the slightest.

you are committing fraud, you said quite clearly you know you are claiming ot for the time you take for election material, I believe yours own words were it's a charade.

In my opinion you are a disgrace committing fraud and don't deserve to be a postman. I sincerely hope you are caught and lose your job and are prosecuted for it.

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 22 Apr 2016, 07:39

I couldn't disagree with you more zx. Newpostie is just making sure he's getting paid for the work he does, as I, and everyone in my office, does too. If that is indeed a union agreement, it's a terrible one. WHY OH WHY should we be expected to take all this election material out for what is usually a pittance of a payment!? As I said, we're paid for a job, and we do the job.

We could really do with less people who look at the rules like they're the gospel law and as if it's a mortal sin to go against them in the slightest.

motherhubbard · Post by **motherhubbard** » 22 Apr 2016, 08:21

Chewster wrote:I couldn't disagree with you more zx. Newpostie is just making sure he's getting paid for the work he does.

He is making sure he gets paid twice for the work he does.
One of the reasons the union opted for a pence /item deal instead of overtime was to ensure people were not in breach of the WTD.

Are there problems with the deal as it stands? Yes.
Does it need to be renegotiated? Yes and fairly for all.

Can you claim overtime and the unit price for delivering election material? No.

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 22 Apr 2016, 09:41

Chewster wrote:I couldn't disagree with you more zx. Newpostie is just making sure he's getting paid for the work he does, as I, and everyone in my office, does too. If that is indeed a union agreement, it's a terrible one. WHY OH WHY should we be expected to take all this election material out for what is usually a pittance of a payment!? As I said, we're paid for a job, and we do the job.

We could really do with less people who look at the rules like they're the gospel law and as if it's a mortal sin to go against them in the slightest.

No he is not making sure he is paid he is commuting fraud by claiming two payments for the same piece of work, also he knows what he is supposed to be doing but is intentionally not doing that

also a pittance? I get 6p per item, this week coming I have 4 election items, that's 24p per door x 600 drops I am getting £144 quid extra in my pay packet less tax, it's realistically going to take me and extra 2 or 3 hours of extra work at most, I wouldn't call that a pittance, even at 2p per item it still works out at over £35 for a couple of hours work

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 22 Apr 2016, 09:47

motherhubbard wrote:
Chewster wrote:I couldn't disagree with you more zx. Newpostie is just making sure he's getting paid for the work he does.
He is making sure he gets paid twice for the work he does.
One of the reasons the union opted for a pence /item deal instead of overtime was to ensure people were not in breach of the WTD.

Are there problems with the deal as it stands? Yes.
Does it need to be renegotiated? Yes and fairly for all.

Can you claim overtime and the unit price for delivering election material? No.

I'm not gonna say I agree or disagree or that's what I'm gonna do or not gonna do, but I'd like to ask - could a postie forgo the pence per leaflet payment and claim the overtime INSTEAD? Or would that result in an imbalance of books and even potential for dodgy managers (or other posties I suppose) to pocket unclaimed election material allowances?

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 22 Apr 2016, 10:23

Chewster wrote:
motherhubbard wrote:
Chewster wrote:I couldn't disagree with you more zx. Newpostie is just making sure he's getting paid for the work he does.
He is making sure he gets paid twice for the work he does.
One of the reasons the union opted for a pence /item deal instead of overtime was to ensure people were not in breach of the WTD.

Are there problems with the deal as it stands? Yes.
Does it need to be renegotiated? Yes and fairly for all.

Can you claim overtime and the unit price for delivering election material? No.
I'm not gonna say I agree or disagree or that's what I'm gonna do or not gonna do, but I'd like to ask - could a postie forgo the pence per leaflet payment and claim the overtime INSTEAD? Or would that result in an imbalance of books and even potential for dodgy managers (or other posties I suppose) to pocket unclaimed election material allowances?

No you can't opt to be paid per hour for these, the agreement specifically moved away from that. There is no allowance that goes unclaimed,

super-postie · Post by **super-postie** » 24 Apr 2016, 20:42

Ive delivered a couple of thousand leaflts and addressed stuff. So flippin many coming in on different days Ive lost track. Just fire em in, deliver em and hope for the best. Worked about 5 hours extra for nought so far. Not allowed to claim extended delivery. I have no idea of the payment nor have i seen an agreement. Just hoping I get more than £50 for the pain. Will be glad when its over. Then on to Brexit! No ghosting on this one in our office. Would have considered not working past my time but couldnt be bothered with the fight and hassle.

Nondescript · Post by **Nondescript** » 24 Apr 2016, 23:12

super-postie wrote:Ive delivered a couple of thousand leaflts and addressed stuff. So flippin many coming in on different days Ive lost track. Just fire em in, deliver em and hope for the best. Worked about 5 hours extra for nought so far. Not allowed to claim extended delivery. I have no idea of the payment nor have i seen an agreement. Just hoping I get more than £50 for the pain. Will be glad when its over. Then on to Brexit! No ghosting on this one in our office. Would have considered not working past my time but couldnt be bothered with the fight and hassle.

I can't believe you agreed to take them out without keeping track of the number you delivered. There should have been a payment sheet associated with each contract.

super-postie · Post by **super-postie** » 25 Apr 2016, 06:34

I didnt really have a choice. I came onto the duty on the Monday. Still stacks from previous week. Sheets all over the place. Stacks of addresses with no indication which party. Some part done. Sone part prepped. I just had to "guestimate" how many I done. I wrote various lines of "unknown" plus number on the sheet. Just hope I dont get "pumped" ! But wont hold my breath. Think Id rather just get paid o/t but understand the need to differentiate between normal pressure and election work.