MRM.COM: Keep it safe Understanding when to use safe place

[Chewster]

We have seen an increased number of complaints relating to doorstepping. This is when postmen and women leave parcels on the property, without either putting them through a letterbox or handing them to the occupier. It includes parcels being left in sheds, kennels and even bins.

This is all down to pressure from managers to get tracked delivered and RMs refusal to implement time for their "deliver to neighbour" strategy, which they have said doesnt take any extra time. Mix that in with the usual runners and corner cutters who are the biggest culprits of this (ironically the kind of posties who are the managers favourites for getting usually failing walks completed)
it has also become obvious with the increasing amount of packages particular customers are now getting that neighbours no longer want to take them in. It was fine when they used to get 1 package every couple of weeks, but theres some customers who get packets most days and arent in, I am now being told by neighbours that they dont want to take their packages anymore as its become too much of a burden. I dont blame them at all !

I've got a few who get packets every single day. I can only assume they run a business from home or something like that. But yes, I've had their neighbours say they don't want to take parcels, and quite right too, as you say.


I actually used to ALWAYS go to neighbours with parcels. But I stopped for a few reasons 1) it was taking far too long (yes I know runner blah blah blah) 2) the neighbours usually weren't in anyway and 3) as said above, people often don't want to take parcels for their neighbours. If you lived on a street like the one I do you wouldn't want your neighbours touching your parcels anyway

It would be handy if RM would offer alternatives to having the postie deliver a parcel. Like just keeping it in the office for the person to collect should they wish. And perhaps offering the sale of safe parcel boxes. I've come across one house that has a relatively large box on their wall, it's unlocked when you get there but you pop the parcel in, twist the latch, and it's locked, so the recipients can open it with their key when they get home.

[Chewster]

our old timer postie usually just opens the front door if we have parcels, doesn't bother using a p739 if she leaves parcels next door, just scribbles on a letter, and about half the time our letters come hidden in the middle of the door to doors...

I open the door and chuck parcels in for a few people too tbh, mainly old folk or people I'm particularly pally with. Always always always leave a p739 though, you do hear of a lot of complaints about p739s not being left. And at one point we were getting A LOT of complaints about letters being placed inside d2ds as well....

[indurain]

yeah I do the same with a few but only people who I know don't mind, I think she maybe just does it because she knows i'm a postie and doesn't think i'll mind which I don't really, but it would be nice if she wrote a p739 instead of just 'pkt with no 5' on a letter...too easy to miss! luckily our neighbours are nice and nearly always in and we don't get many parcels...

[meercat]

Security of Mail

If you know the porch is open (not locked) then its not a secure safe place. But what you do is up to you, they certainly can't sack "IloveMYredTROLLEY" if he doesn't leave it there.

I believe a porch is safe and secure and that's why people store all sorts of belongings in them. I've been told a packet can be left in n a porch so long as it's out of sight. Is that incorrect or is it out own judgement call similar to leaving with a 'safe' neighbour??




So d2d's can't be left in an open porch?

[motherhubbard]

I believe a porch is safe and secure and that's why people store all sorts of belongings in them. I've been told a packet can be left in n a porch so long as it's out of sight. Is that incorrect or is it out own judgement call similar to leaving with a 'safe' neighbour??

If you can open the porch to put the packet in, then someone can open the porch to take it back out.
Ergo it is not safe.

[Chewster]

I believe a porch is safe and secure and that's why people store all sorts of belongings in them. I've been told a packet can be left in n a porch so long as it's out of sight. Is that incorrect or is it out own judgement call similar to leaving with a 'safe' neighbour??

If you can open the porch to put the packet in, then someone can open the porch to take it back out.
Ergo it is not safe.

By that logic (that is, RM's logic, not yours, not having a dig at you) then there is no such thing as a safe place unless the postie has a means to lock it after they have put the item there. If a postie can get in there, then anyone can get in there. I have one house that leaves the key in the shed, and I pop the key through the letterbox if I leave anything in the shed, and another who has a parcelsafe box with a locking latch. Every other "safeplace" can be accessed by any member of the public just as easily as it can be accessed by me.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I believe a porch is safe and secure and that's why people store all sorts of belongings in them. I've been told a packet can be left in n a porch so long as it's out of sight. Is that incorrect or is it out own judgement call similar to leaving with a 'safe' neighbour??

If you can open the porch to put the packet in, then someone can open the porch to take it back out.
Ergo it is not safe.

By that logic (that is, RM's logic, not yours, not having a dig at you) then there is no such thing as a safe place unless the postie has a means to lock it after they have put the item there.

That is the very definition of a safe place. http://www.royalmail.com/corporate/send ... 3-19350599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What counts as a 'safe place'?
Customers can ask for items to be left in any secure, weatherproof area of the property, as long as it is easily accessible for us. Alternatively, they can nominate a near neighbour to receive delivery of the item.

If a postie can get in there, then anyone can get in there. I have one house that leaves the key in the shed, and I pop the key through the letterbox if I leave anything in the shed, and another who has a parcelsafe box with a locking latch. Every other "safeplace" can be accessed by any member of the public just as easily as it can be accessed by me.

Then its not safe, but you "should" be ok as long as the sender has notified you ON the parcel, if they haven't then you are taking a chance.

[Spedley]

So is that official - "Undercover and out of sight" is no longer an acceptable delivery method? It was only a couple of years ago that it was introduced.

That letter states that excluding tracked items the only place you can leave a parcel is with a neighbour (just in case one of the neighbours steals it :-) )

[feduppostie]

ok this scenario had a tracked ( no signature), knocked on door - no reply - knocked again as window open but much louder - no reply, scan item as not delivered and notice on parcel under safeplace it says ' if no answer leave by wheelie bin' ok dokey leave item by wheelie bin and write card out to state that - post card and walk away

30 secs later very irate woman comes out shouting 'Oi why have you left that there it will get nicked' well you didn't answer and it said on packet to leave by wheelie bin

well I don't want you to??????? so why did you write it on your order? and why didn't you answer the door

I was busy and wasn't expecting anyone and it's none of your business what I write when I order stuff

beggars belief!

[Chewster]

ok this scenario had a tracked ( no signature), knocked on door - no reply - knocked again as window open but much louder - no reply, scan item as not delivered and notice on parcel under safeplace it says ' if no answer leave by wheelie bin' ok dokey leave item by wheelie bin and write card out to state that - post card and walk away

30 secs later very irate woman comes out shouting 'Oi why have you left that there it will get nicked' well you didn't answer and it said on packet to leave by wheelie bin

well I don't want you to??????? so why did you write it on your order? and why didn't you answer the door

I was busy and wasn't expecting anyone and it's none of your business what I write when I order stuff

beggars belief!

I get a lot that say to leave it by the wheelie bin. I never do it in case that exact scenario comes up!

On the topic of people not answering doors as well, I've had a few people chasing me down the street with the p739 saying that they didn't hear the door! Yes, you didn't hear me pounding on the door but you heard the letterbox alright!? I honestly think some people just like to wait in and wind up the postie

[POSTMAN]

https://www.myroyalmail.com/news/2014/0 ... g-securely" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If a porch door is closed, do not open the door to post the item.
If a porch door is open, you can enter and post the item, or knock on the door.

Please don’t leave the item in the porch. This is door stepping. Instead, attempt Delivery to Neighbour which is a Royal Mail standard.

If the porch is the item’s designated safe place, shown upon the Tracked label, you may leave the item there out of sight.

[meercat]

https://www.myroyalmail.com/news/2014/0 ... g-securely

If a porch door is closed, do not open the door to post the item.
If a porch door is open, you can enter and post the item, or knock on the door.

Please don’t leave the item in the porch. This is door stepping. Instead, attempt Delivery to Neighbour which is a Royal Mail standard.

If the porch is the item’s designated safe place, shown upon the Tracked label, you may leave the item there out of sight.

So we are being told if the porch door is closed and the letter box is inside on the internal door we bring the mail back??? What a load of complete bollocks. We are supposed to be running a business here FFS not a comedy store.

So I've got to say to these people 'if your porch door is shut you won't get your mail, but if you leave it open blowing in the wind I can step inside and post your mail through your letter box'? Do you realise this will make us look like complete fools?

Why accept this nonsense from head office from people who have never done a delivery or spoken to the public we service each day?

[motherhubbard]

So we are being told if the porch door is closed and the letter box is inside on the internal door we bring the mail back??? ?

Can you read?
It doesn't say that at all.

[yellowbelly]

So we are being told if the porch door is closed and the letter box is inside on the internal door we bring the mail back??? ?

Can you read?
It doesn't say that at all.

MH - in meercat's defence it doesn't say that but it can be implied, however the policy quoted is a bit vague (webpage quote link is dated 2014 so
there might be updated/clearer advice).

What else do you with the mail (letters) if the occupant doesn't answer the door and you can't deliver it - because of the quoted RM policy?
Common sense to me - but in contravention of the quoted policy - I would try the porch door and if open deliver the mail through the inner letterbox - whilst
trying not to knock over the ornaments/plants and other assorted stuff stored in the porch - which is possibly the reason for the policy - to avoid allegations
of damage or theft by RM personnel or being savaged by the Hound Of The Baskervilles which might be lurking behind the inner door which might not
be closed.

Policy for parcels/packets is obviously different - you can attempt DTN but then what do you do with the 739 if you can't enter the porch at the original address.......?

YB

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So we are being told if the porch door is closed and the letterbox is inside on the internal door we bring the mail back??? What a load of complete bollocks. We are supposed to be running a business here FFS not a comedy store.

So I've got to say to these people 'if your porch door is shut you won't get your mail, but if you leave it open blowing in the wind I can step inside and post your mail through your letterbox'? Do you realise this will make us look like complete fools?

Why accept this nonsense from head office from people who have never done a delivery or spoken to the public we service each day?

Why - because Royal Mail cannot legally endorse a process which is in effect trespass.

Posties have an implied right of access to the delivery point which is the door/letterbox. This right of access does not continue beyond a closed door.

You can ignore that right of access on your own recognisance but there is no legal basis for it. Therefore, if you continue to do it, that's probably alright in 99.9999% of cases, but that odd time it goes wrong, RM won't back you up.