Seniority - Is it Logical?

[franco1]

As i stated before i have not said that performance should be based on speed.

What i said was that performance should be based on attendance, punctuality, efficiency with regards to fewer complaints etc.

For example - Why should a postie who is constantly off sick, late, has had negative issues in his office with his colleaugues and has numerous complaints made against him by the public be automatically entitled to a walk over a less senior postie who's "performance" is much better??

Seniority in this case is not logical.

To put it bluntly i can be as s**t a postie as i like come in late, go sick when i feel like, have a go at my coleaugues at work safe in the knowledge that if a walk comes along i will get it - and continue to be s**t.

[fishtank]

Late attendance and sick absence already have their standards and agreements, are you saying that someone who is ill less should get a better duty? What about the effect underlying medical conditions, disability and age play on those criteria? What you're proposing could in fact be unlawful.

Customer complaints? I've had duties where I've had 3 or 4 times more complaints than other duties I've been on just because of the make up of the duty, similar street names and the socio-economic background of the customers.

If you're trying to come up with a more logical option than seniority you need to try harder.

[hampshireman]

Why shouldn't you get an easier walk if you have done lots of years. Trust me if you have done 30+ years, bits of your body are complaining loudly!

Because you're paid at the exact same hourly rate as everyone else. There should be no "easier walks", they should all be equal.

Two legs good ; four legs bad

[hampshireman]

If you look at it logically from a business point of view based on efficiency it would make the most sense to put the "better", "faster" more "efficient" posties on the longest, hardest duties and definitely keep them as reserves.

Just saying....

That's more an illogical look at things that wouldn't help either business or employees.

If a DOM told his office this week they'll be judging each person on delivery based on their speed & efficiency with the findings of the results determining who will go on the perceived hardest, longest, most difficult to prep duties, then what do you think will happen? You'll have a whole office of postmen & postwomen looking to underperform each other in an attempt to secure themselves an easier duty.

Re-read what Fish wrote.

Then understand his point.

I see the point and humour

[TrueBlueTerrier]

As i stated before i have not said that performance should be based on speed.

What i said was that performance should be based on attendance, punctuality, efficiency with regards to fewer complaints etc.

For example - Why should a postie who is constantly off sick, late, has had negative issues in his office with his colleaugues and has numerous complaints made against him by the public be automatically entitled to a walk over a less senior postie who's "performance" is much better??

Seniority in this case is not logical.

To put it bluntly i can be as s**t a postie as i like come in late, go sick when i feel like, have a go at my colleagues at work safe in the knowledge that if a walk comes along i will get it - and continue to be s**t.

But logically which postie would you use on the so-called "bastard" walks. A manager would prefer to a use a reliable and conscientious one as there would be less chance of complaints. Whereas the one that is considered "easy" would be easier to cover on overtime when the postie lets him down again.

Remember managers want an easy life, which way is it easier for them, conscientious or a slacker on a hard walk. The only argument going for a conscientious postie being put on an easy walk is that he may do loads of overtime, but then that's bordering on nepotism.

If anyone can show me how any duty needs more skills to do (ignoring whether it's a hard or easy duty) than any other, and how you can subjectively assess those skills then I may just support a move away from Seniority. But while it is legal (rewarding loyalty is fine in law) and it is free from inequity I will support it.

[genesis]

Whilst I understand your perspective entirely and agreeing with it.
I Question Is it logical to be conscientious?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Whilst I understand your perspective entirely and agreeing with it.
I Question Is it logical to be conscientious?

Beyond self-pride - No.

[fishtank]

Whilst I understand your perspective entirely and agreeing with it.
I Question Is it logical to be conscientious?

From a personal point of view it's completely logical.
It is however completely illogical to believe that a profit driven company managed by incompetents will give a rat's ass never mind base a resourcing model around your conscience.

[genesis]

Therefore it seems ,Duck and dive just as a slacker , have an easier walk, finish early ,same wages as the conscientous bloke on tougher walk,(probably having the Pi** taken)
He's slow old or old school), Hey Thats living in a dog eat dog world.

[psyCrowe]

Therefore it seems ,Duck and dive just as a slacker , have an easier walk, finish early ,same wages as the conscientous bloke on tougher walk,(probably having the Pi** taken)
He's slow old or old school), Hey Thats living in a dog eat dog world.

Then surely the conscientious bloke would see he's having the p*** taken ? It's his battle with management to get his duty tested. If all duties were equal ( like they were supposed to be, excluding a few ) , then this problem still wouldn't disappear. You would have runners flying round the duties, and the shafters seeing an opportunity to do less work.

There's no such thing as favours in RM. If you're clearing a walk that is too big ( in your contracted time, or as overtime ), then you're doing a thankless task. The managers stop caring once all items have left the office.

It's not fair that some guys get easier walks, but you can always use it as an argument with the managers ( as unethical as it may be ).

Edit: forgot to say, nobody should be finishing early. Managers allow this because it saves them bigger problems.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Therefore it seems ,Duck and dive just as a slacker , have an easier walk, finish early ,same wages as the conscientous bloke on tougher walk,(probably having the Pi** taken)
He's slow old or old school), Hey Thats living in a dog eat dog world.

Yes, if managers chose who gets the walk.

[indurain]

What is illogical is arguing over whether seniority should determine who does the easy rounds and who does the s**t rounds.
Any new postie after he's not quite so new anymore realises seniority is bullshit, it's a fact. there is as someone else said no comparison between sticking it out on a 'hard' round to eventually get a better one 20 years ago and doing the same now. Rounds are physically much harder.
rotating rounds would be fairer, but practically is difficult.
the point is the system is always going to be terribly unfair unless royal mail makes some effort to even out the length of rounds in any particular office. Again this will be difficult, but I don't think it would be as difficult as people think. it would just require careful planning and common sense. the problem is why would royal mail bother? they're too busy sealing d2d agreements and while they have seniority, they can be lazy and just use it to counter any argument from postie b as to why he gets paid the same , or less, and his job is 5 times harder than postie a.

[motherhubbard]

It is however completely illogical to believe that a profit driven company managed by incompetents will give a rat's ass never mind base a resourcing model around your conscience.

The decision to deliberately understaff offices means the docket grabbers have the upper hand.
It wasn't so long ago we still wore peaked caps and were pillars of the community.
Now our jobs are planned by useless planners, managed by useless managers and cut up by useless colleagues.
There was a time when being a postman was a dedicated profession.
It is now the domain of whingers and w*****s with very little space for honest and hard working folk.

[indurain]

I can't help thinking posties in other countries must look at how we do our deliveries and laugh

[TrueBlueTerrier]

One thing about seniority, once you have a permanent contract when redundancies come round its not forced last in, first out like a lot of companies. If we give up seniority rights and its cheaper to lay off people based on seniority then I can see compulsory redundancies only a few months after.