motherhubbard wrote:The trouble (from my point of view) with ghost overtime is you effectively have people on different overtime rates.
I don't think that is fair and I don't understand why a trade union would agree that some people are worth more than others.
I don't pay £3/week for the person working next to me to be paid a higher hourly rate.
Our collective agreement talks about utilizing all paid hours. And that is where it stops.
Collective agreement also gives one in six Saturday's off ,that doesn't happen either,especially for reserves.
I've been here over a year and still yet to get a Saturday off
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:There are 2 main types of Ghosting.
1. Working overtime on a different duty, but within your paid hours.
2. Working outside your paid hours on anything, but coming to an agreement with the Manager on exactly how much you'll be paid even if it takes you less. (For instance managers says it will take you about 60 minutes, they agree to pay you 90 minutes. (Other amounts readily available)
Ok that makes a bit more sense now (not much). I've had agreements with managers before about how long something will take, but every single time they have either had it on the button or underestimated. I.e "I'll stick an hour on your docket for that extra work you'll be doing today" only for me to have to come back and add another hour on. And then to make sure the next morning that he is actually going to put that extra hour through.
Once you get used to the different duties you'll have a rough idea and will know if the manager is stretching the truth. Of course if they are desperate they may be willing to offer more, you can only ask.
Our managers are chancers of the highest order, they'll always "underestimate". Also a lot of the time they're basing any estimations on runners. There is one who always manages to finish a good TWO HOURS early. Fine for him, even taking into account him coming in half an hour early and not taking his break, he's still getting a bit of free pay from RM. But when it comes to asking people to cover his days off or sick days etc, the managers expect folk to do it in his time, which I've yet to see anyone do.
Ghost will always be on offer one way or another until they have enough staff to cover all the duties or lots of volunteers to do the available ot. If no one else will do it and they don't want to do it once they're desperate you can name your own terms or tell em to stuff it and go home. Hence getting paid 2 hours for half an hours work on occasions.
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:There are 2 main types of Ghosting.
1. Working overtime on a different duty, but within your paid hours.
2. Working outside your paid hours on anything, but coming to an agreement with the Manager on exactly how much you'll be paid even if it takes you less. (For instance managers says it will take you about 60 minutes, they agree to pay you 90 minutes. (Other amounts readily available)
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:There are 2 main types of Ghosting.
1. Working overtime on a different duty, but within your paid hours.
2. Working outside your paid hours on anything, but coming to an agreement with the Manager on exactly how much you'll be paid even if it takes you less. (For instance managers says it will take you about 60 minutes, they agree to pay you 90 minutes. (Other amounts readily available)
3. Working when on annual leave.
Loads do it in our DO.
Seen working on leave at last DO. (being paid OT - therefore being paid twice)
DOM was very close to being sacked.
Staff (that had ghosted on hols) told to pay the money back.
RM eventually backed off forcing payback of OT. But the repercussions were serious.
A lot of us in our DO work while on annual leave. Whenever I go on annual leave, I always get asked if I want to work some of it. I usually work two or three days just to make up some hours as I'm only paid 20 hours holiday pay. We're paid the full 7.48 hours per day of annual leave worked regardless of how little hours you might end up doing. That's paid in addition to our contract hours, so I suppose that's ghosting as well?
Chewster wrote:A lot of us in our DO work while on annual leave. Whenever I go on annual leave, I always get asked if I want to work some of it. I usually work two or three days just to make up some hours as I'm only paid 20 hours holiday pay. We're paid the full 7.48 hours per day of annual leave worked regardless of how little hours you might end up doing. That's paid in addition to our contract hours, so I suppose that's ghosting as well?
yes and no, it is ghosting but you only work a 5 day week (normal posties anyway) you get 2 days off, whilst on annual leave you also get two days off in addition to 5 annual leave days, working those days off is not ghosting it's simply working your days off, your not getting paid twice for those 2 days, the third day you work yes that's ghosting
bensonhedge wrote:
so this collectively bargained contract that doesn't allow for ghost overtime, how do you feel about the whole of london getting ghost overtime over Christmas?
good for them, i hope RM will eventually notice and extend their deliveries as theyre demonstrating them to be too small, whilst posties in other offices are consistently under pressure from management for not extending.
A lot of people think the managers are stupid, but they are bright enough to realise:
1. If people had to wait till the end of their finish time before starting OT - it wouldn't get done!
2. If people only got paid for the actual time OT takes - it wouldn't get done!
The company (certainly our DO) would be on its knees within a week if it was properly banned.
As an aside from the rights/wrongs of ghosting, how many hours do people get for doing half a delivery on OT? I imagine it varies quite a lot between different offices!
short term yes it would and does cause a lot of problems, but if you look around youll see RM are employing a lot of part time workers exactly for these reasons, it happened exactly as you said in my office, everyone stopped doing OT and RM hired part timers to cover it instead. Now what happens if someone goes off sick, it doesnt go to OT , instead one of the 20 hour contract workers will get a phonecall on their day off and are usually keen to come in and cover to make up their hours.
if you agree to do a 3 hour delivery for 2 hours overtime and it only takes 90 minutes whats the problem?.
royal mail have got their duty covered and saved one hour on their budget.
listen,there,s always going to be ad-hoc overtime, people go off sick,abnormal workload,etc.etc.
managers just manage the situation
part timers especially need overtime to get decent wage,thats the way it is,has been and always will be
one of our duties is so small it can be done in 31 hours, the guy comes in on his day off and works 8 hours and gets paid 47 hours!! meaning if I worked an hour less one day, I would get an hour docked off any other overtime.
I agree 100% with bensonhedge, some people work at different speeds. If you know the day before that you are doing docket, and you want to start a little bit early, what's the problem? Taking your 40 break in the comfort of your own house, instead on the street , what's the problem? If your offered 6 hours to do a walk and you can do it in 4, still doing the job properly, but moving at a steady pace and doing as I described above, what's the problem? When the USO goes along at least 30% of employees within the next 8 years,( Royal Mail will certainly not worry about making mass redundancies when the time comes) this time in our history will be known as the golden time. Make the most of it.
westham000 wrote:I agree 100% with bensonhedge, some people work at different speeds. If you know the day before that you are doing docket, and you want to start a little bit early, what's the problem? Taking your 40 break in the comfort of your own house, instead on the street , what's the problem? If your offered 6 hours to do a walk and you can do it in 4, still doing the job properly, but moving at a steady pace and doing as I described above, what's the problem? When the USO goes along at least 30% of employees within the next 8 years,( Royal Mail will certainly not worry about making mass redundancies when the time comes) this time in our history will be known as the golden time. Make the most of it.
