Seniority - Is it Logical?

super-postie · Post by **super-postie** » 17 Mar 2016, 15:43

Seems logical to me. But totally ignored in my office. Bosses pet gets all the good duties and overtime. So Id be happy if it was used as Id get better duties and more cash!

toomuchcoke · Post by **toomuchcoke** » 17 Mar 2016, 16:45

franco1 wrote:Is seniority still the most fair system?

Can I (mis)quote Winston Churchill? Seniority is the worst way to allocate duties, except for all the other ways!

DB1100 · Post by **DB1100** » 17 Mar 2016, 17:11

fishtank wrote:Seniority is a bit like parole, nobody is really sure if it should happen but if it didn't there would be far more bad behaviour inside.

A very good way of putting it.

Post by **Judgee** » 17 Mar 2016, 17:34

dvbuk55 wrote:Having been a member of this site for some years and having retired after 25 years aged 69 in my experience the only people who ask this question are those with no seniority and it's asked with alarming regularity time after time.

Yup as always. Noobies whining it's not fair until they've been in the job long enough to benefit and then they don't mind it so much!

Any fairer systems? No. If it's based on performance then young noobies fresh in from the world may well perform better, purely down the destruction longer serving postman are forced to inflict on their bodies year after year.

Bide your time noobie, your turn will come and in the mean time please stop moaning and get on with it thanks !

Post by **greengiant** » 17 Mar 2016, 17:41

franco1 wrote:The point i was trying to make is not that seniority necessarily gets you an easy walk - although obviously having first say on a walk that you know through experience is easier than others achieves this.

What i am saying is that the allocation of duty walks is not based on performance - and perhaps it should be.
Management and Rep could sit and analyze all the applicants and assess their performance so the best man wins.

If all applicants are equally suitable with regards to performance, attendance etc, then by all means seniority should then play a part in the decision.

Sound fair?

How do you define "performance"? Would someone who comes in an hour early, runs, cuts corners and doorsteps to make 100% delivery rate have a better "performance" than someone who comes in, does the job by the book and works to their time? Or does a single postie, who having no family / kids, who is able to work lots of overtime a better "performer" than someone who is unable to do over time due to family commitments?

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 17 Mar 2016, 18:21

Working at Royal Mail is never going to be fair. For every senior guy on a cushy number there are also new kids on the block who have either landed themselves a fixed duty (regardless of seniority) or been fastracked to management.

When I started many years ago there was no one there to hold our hand every 40 minutes and tell us where to go. Often I ended up getting the bus just to get to my start point because the van driver had gone or there were no push-bikes available. Then tomorrow different area, different duty! I ended up carrying an A to Z and bus timetable with me!! The rounds were maybe not as big as they are now but they certainly took a while a learn. Maybe it's why so many guys chucked it back then. And for those that stayed the course is the number one reason why the Royal Mail are the best courier company NOW. As for the future, who knows??

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 17 Mar 2016, 18:23

tansorboy wrote:It's illegal.

in what way is using seniority under the current rm rules illegal? I think you will find that the current way that seniority is used within royal mail is perfectly legal

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 17 Mar 2016, 18:59

one aspect where it's very far from logical or even acceptable is machine operators.
Dear old Bert, 64 years old and just about able to use his TV remote, beats some young intelligent and enthusiastic person to the duty.
Only RM, having made a ££multi-million capital investment in automation, then jeopardises it by choosing older ex-delivery posties (by the seniority system) rather than someone clearly more capable.
Bizarre.

Destiny · Post by **Destiny** » 17 Mar 2016, 19:08

Senior postie A & Junior postie B are equal so Seniority is the most logical answer.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 18 Mar 2016, 08:13

Everyone bar RM/CWU would say aptitude and ability is the most logical way. Length of service shouldn't be the only criterion.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 18 Mar 2016, 08:40

put it this way then.....if redundancies became compulsory and they were paying people off. a postie with 25 yrs service is told you are getting your cards you are no longer required. a postie with 18 months service is told you stay where you are we need you. Fair?/...LOGICAL?

tansorboy · Post by **tansorboy** » 18 Mar 2016, 11:14

fishtank wrote:
tansorboy wrote:It's illegal.
First of all you need to understand the difference between illegal and unlawful, secondly if you're going to throw in a blanket statement like that you really need to be able to back it up with some facts.

I'll start you off,

Question 1 Seniority is not illegal but it can be both lawfully and unlawfully applied.....

Give an example of each and show your working.

If all walks were the same (length, time needed to complete and volume of mail/parcels then seniority is legal. In my office, the walks are not all the same and everybody knows that. That is illegal. And also immoral....

tansorboy · Post by **tansorboy** » 18 Mar 2016, 11:25

zx135 wrote:
tansorboy wrote:It's illegal.
in what way is using seniority under the current rm rules illegal? I think you will find that the current way that seniority is used within royal mail is perfectly legal

See you in court.

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 18 Mar 2016, 13:17

tansorboy wrote:
zx135 wrote:
tansorboy wrote:It's illegal.
in what way is using seniority under the current rm rules illegal? I think you will find that the current way that seniority is used within royal mail is perfectly legal
See you in court.

I take it by that you have nothing to back up your claim? other than just your word for it being illegal, which law is being broken and how is it being broken by royal mail

Destiny · Post by **Destiny** » 18 Mar 2016, 13:32

Few suggestions here would be unlawful ie...Discriminatory, be it age, speed or disability.
There is no stick to point you are better than me so everyone is equal

Everything else walk wise is a different issue!

(I'm in the middle of 100+ able bodied so not swayed by either, just what's fair)