Taking your meal relief on delivery can I .......

Post by **PHARRY** » 16 Mar 2016, 17:59

burtons wrote:spot on zx.i cant see a problem with this.just run it past your manager first.either way you are entitled by law to a break away from your van.simples

Nothing wrong in eating in your van at all

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 16 Mar 2016, 19:02

PHARRY wrote:
burtons wrote:spot on zx.i cant see a problem with this.just run it past your manager first.either way you are entitled by law to a break away from your van.simples

Nothing wrong in eating in your van at all

nothing wrong with it, but you do have the right to have a break away from it, you may not want to use that right but others do

Pompey Boy · Post by **Pompey Boy** » 16 Mar 2016, 23:29

zx135 and fishtank,

Sorry you are both right - I was thinking back to my HGV days where you are covered by the WTD, UK domestic and EU rules. All of this info would be recorded on your tacho and you can be warned by RM about breaking the rules/law (breaks, daily and weekly rest) or prosecuted if stopped by the DVSA (used to be VOSA). In fact they don't even need to stop you now - they can use bluetooth to download things.

However, I still stand by what I say about not taking breaks and think about the following:

1 If you have an accident that damages your and/or another vehicle an ERICA has to be completed. If you can't prove that you had a break when you were entilted to/should have done this could count against you when RM consider giving you a blameworthy which could result in having your driving assessed.

2 If you have an accident where someone is injured the Police will become involved. RM will have to provide MOT details etc and show that the vehicle was in a roadworthy condition. If it's not and it's your regular vehicle not good - vehicle checks. When you give a statement to the Police they will ask about breaks and daily rest. The onus will be on you to prove these things.

3 When I drove HGVs you could take a break in your cab, but in the pasenger seat, which would not be your normal place of work. Don't know if this applies to small vans.

Why anyone would not want to take a break when they can is beyond me, but then I guess alot of you delivery guys who went from bikes to driving have a lot to learn. Be interested to know if you guys drive and if you've had an accident at all.

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 17 Mar 2016, 11:46

Pompey Boy wrote: I was thinking back to my HGV days where you are covered by the WTD, UK domestic and EU rules.

WTD does not say you must take a break, it says you have the right to take one, thats the crucial difference, yes drivers regs are different where by you must take a break but unfortunately these regs dont generally apply to posties unless they are driving a lorrie etc

Pompey Boy wrote:1 If you have an accident that damages your and/or another vehicle an ERICA has to be completed. If you can't prove that you had a break when you were entilted to/should have done this could count against you when RM consider giving you a blameworthy which could result in having your driving assessed.

in fact could be worse, not only that it could result in you losing your job, i was not supporting not taking breaks just correcting the legal position you were saying

Pompey Boy wrote:2 If you have an accident where someone is injured the Police will become involved. RM will have to provide MOT details etc and show that the vehicle was in a roadworthy condition. If it's not and it's your regular vehicle not good - vehicle checks. When you give a statement to the Police they will ask about breaks and daily rest. The onus will be on you to prove these things.

actually there is no onus for you to prove anything to the police about your breaks, the onus would be on the police to prove you hadnt taken them

Pompey Boy wrote:3 When I drove HGVs you could take a break in your cab, but in the pasenger seat, which would not be your normal place of work. Don't know if this applies to small vans.

you can take your break anywhere even in the driving seat, what you do have is the right to take it away from the van if you want, thats the key point

Pompey Boy wrote:Why anyone would not want to take a break when they can is beyond me, but then I guess alot of you delivery guys who went from bikes to driving have a lot to learn. Be interested to know if you guys drive and if you've had an accident at all.

delivery spans used to be around 2.5-3.5hours coupled with temptaion of job and finish, after sorting your mail a quick 3.5 hour stint without a break didnt seem too bad for some, though delivery lengths are now increasing at the moment delivery lengths are around 5 hours max, so accidents with fatigue after not taking a break being a factor are probably in the increasing minority at the moment, however with spans being talked about being increased to 6 hours this could change

super-postie · Post by **super-postie** » 17 Mar 2016, 15:53

You are entitled to 30 mins paid break if you work 5 hrs or more. Id take 10 prior to departure and 20 somewhere in middle. Take what you are entitled to. The runners and early birds and those who dont take breaks are completely ruining the job and making the rest of us look incompetent. Stand strong. Join the union and protect the job which we all love (sometimes) !

Pompey Boy · Post by **Pompey Boy** » 19 Mar 2016, 23:52

super-postie wrote:You are entitled to 30 mins paid break if you work 5 hrs or more. Id take 10 prior to departure and 20 somewhere in middle. Take what you are entitled to. The runners and early birds and those who dont take breaks are completely ruining the job and making the rest of us look incompetent. Stand strong. Join the union and protect the job which we all love (sometimes) !

Never heard this before - RM are one of the few employers left to provide paid breaks.

Pompey Boy · Post by **Pompey Boy** » 20 Mar 2016, 00:01

zx135 we will have to disagree. However, went out for a few beers with some of our 600 drivers last night and their thoughts back me up. Whether you are a postie, 600, artic or any other driver, or drive for any other company for that matter, the authorities will consider you to be a "professional driver" and as such expect you to drive to certain standards ie you do your vehicle checks, drive safely and take the breaks you are entitled to. I have asked one driver who is doing his CPC shortly to ask about the RM position on the WTD. It's all about being fit to drive - remember the guy who caused those rail deaths by driving after being up all night?

hampshireman · Post by **hampshireman** » 20 Mar 2016, 14:15

wannabeek wrote:
Stammerking wrote:go into a shop on my delivery and have a cuppa whilst eating my lunch? Van outside mail secure in the back no keys or PDA on show. Usually have about 40 mins delivery left then I empty a Post Office so don't want to take it at the end of my delivery with bags of mail and specials.

Thanks Rich
Has somebody told you that you cannot do that? It sounds reasonable to me but your manager can instruct when and where to take breaks, within certain limitations.

Your Manager cannot tell you where you take a break. Full stop.

motherhubbard · Post by **motherhubbard** » 20 Mar 2016, 14:37

hampshireman wrote:
wannabeek wrote:
Stammerking wrote:go into a shop on my delivery and have a cuppa whilst eating my lunch? Van outside mail secure in the back no keys or PDA on show. Usually have about 40 mins delivery left then I empty a Post Office so don't want to take it at the end of my delivery with bags of mail and specials.

Thanks Rich
Has somebody told you that you cannot do that? It sounds reasonable to me but your manager can instruct when and where to take breaks, within certain limitations.
Your Manager cannot tell you where you take a break. Full stop.

What if you wanted to take your break in an area that had been assessed as a high risk area with a number of previous incidents of theft of mail?

hampshireman · Post by **hampshireman** » 20 Mar 2016, 15:12

motherhubbard wrote:
hampshireman wrote:
wannabeek wrote:
Stammerking wrote:go into a shop on my delivery and have a cuppa whilst eating my lunch? Van outside mail secure in the back no keys or PDA on show. Usually have about 40 mins delivery left then I empty a Post Office so don't want to take it at the end of my delivery with bags of mail and specials.

Thanks Rich
Has somebody told you that you cannot do that? It sounds reasonable to me but your manager can instruct when and where to take breaks, within certain limitations.
Your Manager cannot tell you where you take a break. Full stop.
What if you wanted to take your break in an area that had been assessed as a high risk area with a number of previous incidents of theft of mail?

Good point ; well made.

Your Manager cannot tell you where to take your break (except if in high risk area?)

What I meant of course is that the DOM cannot tell you to take a break 'upstairs ' ; if you would like / wish to take your break elsewhere.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 20 Mar 2016, 16:43

hampshireman wrote:Your Manager cannot tell you where you take a break. Full stop.

That's not exactly true, the working time directive which by the way is a weak as piss piece of legislation blatantly ignored by most companies only states that you are entitled to take it away from your normal place of work, that's a very vague statement and could include an employer provided canteen.

Many companies for security reasons don't allow their staff off the premises during breaks.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 20 Mar 2016, 19:57

fishtank wrote:
hampshireman wrote:Your Manager cannot tell you where you take a break. Full stop.
That's not exactly true, the working time directive which by the way is a weak as piss piece of legislation blatantly ignored by most companies only states that you are entitled to take it away from your normal place of work, that's a very vague statement and could include an employer provided canteen.

Many companies for security reasons don't allow their staff off the premises during breaks.

But a canteen without food and even then they cannot dictate the time of part meal relief Gray area but it must be challenged.

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 20 Mar 2016, 22:12

If you sign out of the legislation that limits you to doing less than 48 hours, are you then also signing out of other parts of the work time directive?

Also, in our office we have WTL in our canteen. Could we then argue that our canteen is actually part of our work station (as an obligation to the job is carried out there) and thus completely refuse to have breaks there at all?

Post by **Jiries** » 20 Mar 2016, 22:43

Cancelled.

hampshireman · Post by **hampshireman** » 25 Mar 2016, 14:53

fishtank wrote:
hampshireman wrote:Your Manager cannot tell you where you take a break. Full stop.
That's not exactly true, the working time directive which by the way is a weak as piss piece of legislation blatantly ignored by most companies only states that you are entitled to take it away from your normal place of work, that's a very vague statement and could include an employer provided canteen.

Many companies for security reasons don't allow their staff off the premises during breaks.

Understand where you are coming from . And the directive is 'wooly'.

But , being entitled to take it away from my normal place of work ; means to me I can be off site. Therefore can ; go home ; have a wander down the street etc etc.

We have our management trying to force people to only go upstairs.