DocketLefty wrote:
Welcome to the real world.... Imagine working for tesco on a 9-2 contract and not doing any overtime? A job for a full time position comes up, you and another guy apply for it. The other guy always does extra and is willing to help out. Who will
Get the full time contract?
Depends on how strong the union is, where it stands and who it backs (and how it's members stand ) .
For the record if more hours are given to the part timer on their contract it is done in seniority order which is detailed in the Way Forward. I have been dealing with this issue for quite a few years and have seen a significant number of part timers get increases in their contracted but the most senior part timers is always offered first not the individual who may be working the hours in the first place.
Now I don't get the arguement that if you don't do overtime you get more duties ! Overtime in the main is absence overtime when someone is on sick leave , annual leave or special leave , if this is not covered then casuals or managers will do the work ! They will not increase hours for part timers based on these as people come back from sick leave , annual leave and special leave !
Some offices do agree some duties as SA Ie working their rest day on SA and yes you could fill them but a lot of people rely on extra hours to survive. Remember the pound in your pocket is worth different in various parts of the U.K. and a lot of postal workers need some overtime to get by.
mancpat wrote:Part time staff who do overtime won't get made up to full time over staff who don't do overtime. It goes on seniority.
Not according to the union.
TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
At Tesco - the manager decides.
At Royal mail - seniority decides.
Not according to the union.
dingo wrote:Most part timers do not just do overtime against sick or vacancies.
A significant amount of part timers work beyond their contract hours on their own duty because the duty was designed for a part timer but did not take into account new delivery points , more attendance calls or it has not been prepped when they come in and therefore they have to prep the work when they were meant to just be delivery only ! These should be made up now.
So there we have it. Assuming Dingo is speaking for the Union, the Union backs Newbies who work overtime due to the reasons he states above, over ten yearers who think they are protecting jobs by not working overtime.
What union? Your office rep I presume? If so I'd be guessing your rep isn't doing his job properly and is looking out for a mate
As a full time member of staff I 100% would never judge any other member of staff for doing overtime, afterall, they are doing it for the £, nothing more.
My biggest issue is with the snides in most DO's who will happily do a few hours here and there on their day off but publicly berate others for doing a full days shift as they believe it will contribute to lapsing.
It's extremely easy to say, don't do overtime and vacancies will get filled/people will get made up to FT contracts, but until there is a agreement on when to hold an official ban on overtime for a fortnight or so, then nothing will change.
Most P/T guys I know in my office are quite happy with the ball being in their court when it comes to OT. Work a day off or come in (paid) early 2-3 days and they can get almost FT wages.
The pay deal this year or next will be of the greatest importance too all in delivery as these job's will be cut to the bone in the coming years just as mail centres were before now! Yet it is for us all to think of the latest plan's of royal mails strategy and look for ways we can mitigate these plans as a collective as one office one branch nor one area will do this on their own! Only as one will we achieve anything worth recommending for the members of our union! In essence solidarity is the key we need to unlock the strings and secure a good deal for all our members of the CWU.
dingo wrote:Most part timers do not just do overtime against sick or vacancies.
A significant amount of part timers work beyond their contract hours on their own duty because the duty was designed for a part timer but did not take into account new delivery points , more attendance calls or it has not been prepped when they come in and therefore they have to prep the work when they were meant to just be delivery only ! These should be made up now.
The issue with overtime and part timers working against sick leave is that you cannot have an increase in contracted hours because the person on sick leave will return and therefore the hours you would have worked against their duty would no longer be there ! Yes someone may always be sick but how many are sick varies from week to week so it is very hard to say you can have an increase in hours to cover sick leave but you will have to do a different duty sometimes daily or weekly.
In terms of part timers covering vacancies then I do thing there is a debate to be had as you could say that there is a 25 vacancy not filled and we are going to share those 25 hours amongst say 5 part timers so they get an additional 5 hours on their contract. The issue those is obviously this will mean a longer span for part timers as you are sharing the walk of the vacancy amongst the other part timers !
In our office we do not, ye, have a single part time duty, every part timer is working a fulltime duty which puts the other full timers under pressure to get the job done. For example, I work a van share with another full timer, when they are of I generally get lumbered with a part timer, no problem with the person but I am expected to get both walks ready to go in the same time that I and my regular partner do it, it's all bullshit.
dingo wrote:
Now I don't get the arguement that if you don't do overtime you get more duties ! Overtime in the main is absence overtime when someone is on sick leave , annual leave or special leave , if this is not covered then casuals or managers will do the work ! They will not increase hours for part timers based on these as people come back from sick leave , annual leave and special leave !
Creditshampoo wrote:I'm part time 25 hours and been on a full time duty for 2 years :(
The kind of overtime I'm talking about is part timers doing full timers duties such as Creditshampoo above, and the 'complete the duty' overtime which is by far the biggest thing responsible for overtime in my office. The walks are too big can't be done 4 or 5 days a week, so overtime is required to complete. If people didn't do this overtime, maybe they'd make the walks manageable by having more ie increasing hours in the office, protecting jobs.
dingo wrote:
Now I don't get the arguement that if you don't do overtime you get more duties ! Overtime in the main is absence overtime when someone is on sick leave , annual leave or special leave , if this is not covered then casuals or managers will do the work ! They will not increase hours for part timers based on these as people come back from sick leave , annual leave and special leave !
Creditshampoo wrote:I'm part time 25 hours and been on a full time duty for 2 years :(
The kind of overtime I'm talking about is part timers doing full timers duties such as Creditshampoo above, and the 'complete the duty' overtime which is by far the biggest thing responsible for overtime in my office. The walks are too big can't be done 4 or 5 days a week, so overtime is required to complete. If people didn't do this overtime, maybe they'd make the walks manageable by having more ie increasing hours in the office, protecting jobs.
We tried this in my office only working to our hours for a month. Management were quite happy letting the mail stay in the frame and I quote " we would rather leave the mail in the frame than make you up" which is disgusting really. We are providing a survive afterall
In our office being a part timer only seems to refer to your contract. We now have 5 part time duties, 4 of them covered by "true" part timers, another covered by me (as I've detailed in another topic) and it will soon be taken over by a new part timer who will be starting in a few weeks. I'll be moving on to a full time duty, coming in at the same time as full timers to do all the prep and the IPS, as do all the other part timers who cover full time duties. So really, we're not missing out on anything, until it's time for us to go on holiday. For most of us that means either working a bit of your holiday to make up a bit of cash, or swapping all your holidays so that you're not lumped with a 3 week block of what is essentially half pay.
Chewster wrote:In our office being a part timer only seems to refer to your contract. We now have 5 part time duties, 4 of them covered by "true" part timers, another covered by me (as I've detailed in another topic) and it will soon be taken over by a new part timer who will be starting in a few weeks. I'll be moving on to a full time duty, coming in at the same time as full timers to do all the prep and the IPS, as do all the other part timers who cover full time duties. So really, we're not missing out on anything, until it's time for us to go on holiday. For most of us that means either working a bit of your holiday to make up a bit of cash, or swapping all your holidays so that you're not lumped with a 3 week block of what is essentially half pay.
If you are doing more than your contract hours on the duty you are allocated for more than 6 months, from the indoor or outdoor workload, you should be getting a better hourly contract. Which will give you better holidat pay, sick pay and Xmas bonus money.
Why are you as part timers ending up with a 3-week block of holiday, if that was done done out of your choice? Annual leave should not be allocated based on seniority, as per the national agreement, local agreement should not contradict national ones.
Chewster wrote:In our office being a part timer only seems to refer to your contract. We now have 5 part time duties, 4 of them covered by "true" part timers, another covered by me (as I've detailed in another topic) and it will soon be taken over by a new part timer who will be starting in a few weeks. I'll be moving on to a full time duty, coming in at the same time as full timers to do all the prep and the IPS, as do all the other part timers who cover full time duties. So really, we're not missing out on anything, until it's time for us to go on holiday. For most of us that means either working a bit of your holiday to make up a bit of cash, or swapping all your holidays so that you're not lumped with a 3 week block of what is essentially half pay.
If you are doing more than your contract hours on the duty you are allocated for more than 6 months, from the indoor or outdoor workload, you should be getting a better hourly contract. Which will give you better holidat pay, sick pay and Xmas bonus money.
Why are you as part timers ending up with a 3-week block of holiday, if that was done done out of your choice? Annual leave should not be allocated based on seniority, as per the national agreement, local agreement should not contradict national ones.
We've asked and asked to have our contracts bumped up, but nothing yet. There are some people who have been on part time contracts for YEARS while doing full time duties. So I'm not holding my breath.
As for holidays, I have no idea, I was told that's how it works. In our office, holidays are just allocated to everyone (for me it was one 3 week block and a further block of 10 days or whatever it was left over). If we want different holidays, we need to find someone willing to swap. As a fair amount of us are part timers, most of us are pretty keen to swap so as not to be left with the dreaded 3 weeks of half pay
To add on to that, myself and another fellow who started at the same time as me, we get shifted from duty to duty fairly often. For about a month in summer and over the christmas period I was on the same duty every day, but aside from that I've had at least one day out of every week on a different duty from normal. Same for the other guy. I don't know if that means that management can wangle themselves out of having to give us bigger contracts as we're not on the same duty all the time. They've used that excuse to not give me my Saturday off in the past - "you haven't been on that duty all week so you're not actually entitled to the duty day off so we'll give you Friday instead." followed by "oh by the way do you fancy working Friday?" (this conversation took place on the Thursday). The cheek of it!!! Normally I'm happy to work a day off but I resent blatant cheek like that so I hope he enjoyed trying to convince everyone to do double lapsing when they were told there would be none
IloveMYredTROLLEY! wrote:
If you are doing more than your contract hours on the duty you are allocated for more than 6 months, from the indoor or outdoor workload, you should be getting a better hourly contract.
dingo wrote:For the record if more hours are given to the part timer on their contract it is done in seniority order which is detailed in the Way Forward.
