Rubbish hours

[TrueBlueTerrier]

How on earth are full timers getting done an hr early? Your office needs sorting out. You obviously have too many staff, send some over our way to do all the cutt offs and lapsing would ya.

We have plenty of full time staff who finish an hour early and love that they get an hour of royal mail every day.

BUT they come on 30min early, don't take breaks and do lapsing every day (which has now increased because they have an hour on their shift)

Now go and do the maths and tell me who's having the real laugh there.

They finish early yet give RM 1:10 min extra work for free. Perhaps these Mugs would like these Mugs http://www.urbangifts.co.uk/media/catal ... -mug-2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chewster]

In our office we add breaks we don't take onto our hours at the end of the day (as advised by workplace coaches and even doms). So if a full timer finishes 20 minutes before their time, they'll put in a docket for 20 minutes. We definitely don't have too many staff, we've got 4 vacancies right now. You're right though, most of them are coming in AT LEAST half an hour early, which of course they don't get paid for. Still, for a lot of them that still equates to them getting paid for more than they've done. But yes, our office is in a total state, can't disagree with that

[TrueBlueTerrier]

In our office we add breaks we don't take onto our hours at the end of the day (as advised by workplace coaches and even doms). So if a full timer finishes 20 minutes before their time, they'll put in a docket for 20 minutes. We definitely don't have too many staff, we've got 4 vacancies right now. You're right though, most of them are coming in AT LEAST half an hour early, which of course they don't get paid for. Still, for a lot of them that still equates to them getting paid for more than they've done. But yes, our office is in a total state, can't disagree with that

Then your DOM and WPCs are effectively breaking H&S statutes, and could face prosecution under such if an investigation identifies fatigue was a factor. Its remotely possible if someone dies as a result that they could face Corporate Manslaughter charges.

FTimers can take 20 minutes at the end, but they can't take 40 minutes. Part timers who are expected to work more than 6 hours in a day also can't take their 30 minutes at the end, though they might get away with 10 minutes at the end, but that isn't a recognised break pattern

Gov rules@ https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/overview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rest breaks at work
Workers have the right to one uninterrupted 20 minute rest break during their working day (this could be a tea or lunch break), if they work more than 6 hours a day.

Employers can say when employees take rest breaks during work time as long as:

the break is taken in one go somewhere in the middle of the day (not at the beginning or end)
workers are allowed to spend it away from their desk or workstation (ie away from where they actually work)
It doesn’t count as a rest break if an employer says an employee should go back to work before their break is finished.

Unless a worker’s employment contract says so, they don’t have the right to:

take smoking breaks
get paid for rest breaks

Our Breaks:

[mancpat]

How on earth are full timers getting done an hr early? Your office needs sorting out. You obviously have too many staff, send some over our way to do all the cutt offs and lapsing would ya.

We have plenty of full time staff who finish an hour early and love that they get an hour of royal mail every day.

BUT they come on 30min early, don't take breaks and do lapsing every day (which has now increased because they have an hour on their shift)

Now go and do the maths and tell me who's having the real laugh there.

They finish early yet give RM 1:10 min extra work for free. Perhaps these Mugs would like these Mugs http://www.urbangifts.co.uk/media/catal ... -mug-2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Exactly!

You try telling them that if they came in on time and took their breaks we probably wouldn't be lapsing and you just get blank looks. Or they say "yeah but I'd rather finish an hour early". Literally banging your head against a wall.

I'd love to see their faces if they actually sat down and worked out just how much they are losing out working for free. 10-15 mins here or there added up over a year adds up

[amc]

You try telling them that if they came in on time and took their breaks we probably wouldn't be lapsing and you just get blank looks. Or they say "yeah but I'd rather finish an hour early". Literally banging your head against a wall.

I'd love to see their faces if they actually sat down and worked out just how much they are losing out working for free. 10-15 mins here or there added up over a year adds up

I'm coming up to the end of my 1st year of service and it was an eye opener joining RM having workerd for a Fortune 500 Global company before hand. The work ethic of some of these people stinks and I think they could all do with a good sh@gging! Run round like idiots now, but can they see themselves in the job when they're in the the 40's or 50's?

No pride in their job, the way some represent the business (lack of uniform/no time for customers or public/bringing back as much as they take out the of DO/cuttin across lawns/jumping fences/dropping parcels over fences... to name but a few pointers.
The state of their vans (or others they have used). relentless energy cans under the seats (other brands available). I am really shocked that such an "instatution" allows this.

If a jobs worth doing, its worth doing right. You finish delivery early on a monday or tuesday clean your van or duty's fitting. If they're up to date with your weekly van check and its sparkly clean, your fittings clean and the general state of the office is clean, then grab a brush and sweep the litter and rubber bands up off the yard.

Work your time, tame your breaks. It's not a hard job, and something that you could take pride in when removing the self inflicted pressure of running round just for finishing early.

[ej88]

I certainly don't rush around the duty I'm on but I do occasionally get an early finish which has become one of the small, if any, perk of the job! We also have a cleaner that sweeps the yard? So you can bet if I finish early I am off out that door before doing it all over again the next day!

[yellowbelly]

In our office we add breaks we don't take onto our hours at the end of the day (as advised by workplace coaches and even doms). So if a full timer finishes 20 minutes before their time, they'll put in a docket for 20 minutes. We definitely don't have too many staff, we've got 4 vacancies right now. You're right though, most of them are coming in AT LEAST half an hour early, which of course they don't get paid for. Still, for a lot of them that still equates to them getting paid for more than they've done. But yes, our office is in a total state, can't disagree with that

Then your DOM and WPCs are effectively breaking H&S statutes, and could face prosecution under such if an investigation identifies fatigue was a factor. Its remotely possible if someone dies as a result that they could face Corporate Manslaughter charges.

FTimers can take 20 minutes at the end, but they can't take 40 minutes. Part timers who are expected to work more than 6 hours in a day also can't take their 30 minutes at the end, though they might get away with 10 minutes at the end, but that isn't a recognised break pattern

Gov rules@ https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/overview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rest breaks at work
Workers have the right to one uninterrupted 20 minute rest break during their working day (this could be a tea or lunch break), if they work more than 6 hours a day.

Employers can say when employees take rest breaks during work time as long as:

the break is taken in one go somewhere in the middle of the day (not at the beginning or end)
workers are allowed to spend it away from their desk or workstation (ie away from where they actually work)
It doesn’t count as a rest break if an employer says an employee should go back to work before their break is finished.

Unless a worker’s employment contract says so, they don’t have the right to:

take smoking breaks
get paid for rest breaks

Our Breaks:

TBT - can I offer a different viewpoint?

The Working Time Regulations 1998 (Statute) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998 ... on/12/made states that
workers +6 hrs are entitled to a break of not less than 20 mins - doesn't state when those 20 minutes should be taken.

The gov.uk website you refer to - it is not clear whether it is stating law or guidance. Apologies if I'm being semantic - this information can also be interpreted
two ways, firstly as you have stated or it could also be intrepreted as if the break is not taken 'in one go in the middle of the day' then the employer does not necessarily have the 'right' to state when that break is taken. To my mind it doesn't say 'breaks must not be taken at the beginning or end of the day'.

HSE website says break 'should not be taken either at the start, or at the end, of a working day.' note 'should' not 'must'.

Also on the next page of the .gov.uk website you mention, at 'Compensatory Rest' it states 'A worker may be entitled to compensatory rest if:

........they’re working in an industry which is very busy at certain times of the year – like agriculture, retail, postal services or tourism

and

......they work in different places which are a reasonable distance from each other (postie on a rural route?)

Also the break pattern referred to (which I believe comes from the 'Way Forward Agreement') states the probable pattern (not set in stone?)
and also states 'The actual pattern of the breaks within these rules will be agreed locally'.

IMHO if agreed locally, breaks can be taken 'at the end'. The semantics of 'should' and 'must' and interpretations of 'law', 'guidance' and workplace agreements
does not help to provide a definitive answer....this discussion could go on......http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =1&t=73715

YB

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I think they use the should, because although breaks are covered by various directives and statutes and the employer has to abide by them, the employee doesn't, so they hedge their bets.

The problem for posties who take their break at the end of the duty is when they claim overtime to cover part or all of untaken breaks. Because the law says employers must provide a break somewhere in the middle, if they pay overtime for a break then in effect they are breaking the law. To get round this they try to dock the overtime because they can (they think) reasonably believe that you should have, or actually did, take the break at the appropriate time.