common sense ?

[crazyshrew]

But the public, the people we deliver to, are not the customer.
Q How much does Mrs Smith at No32 pay RM to have her mail delivered?
A.£0.00p.
So what right does she have to make demands about a service she's not paying for.

So if I order a parcel/tickets/<insert item> and pay the postage am I not the customer? (indirectly admittedly) after all I've paid for the service! - The company has been paid (by me) to then sort out the picking, packing and sending of the item!

After all they are trying to push us as a 'parcels' company ;)

No, you have paid the company for A) the item you want and B) the costs for them to get the item to you, whether they do it themselves or employ a 3rd party to do the leg work.

Your contact is with the company NOT Royal Mail or any other delivery company the company decide to use, Delivery companies are only answerable to whoever employs them.
RM is actually pretty generous on this by listening to complaints from the people we are delivering to and issuing small amounts of compensation to them (only a book of stamps but still much more than they have to)

Have you ever had a effed up "delivery" from Hermes? They (annoyingly, but are well within their rights to) refuse point blank to deal with the recipient because they have no contract with them.


Moving on to people who don't see why next day delivery is so important to people.

Lots of people like to know when their item will arrive so can make arrangements to for it be somehow successfully delivered.
(don't all laugh at once! after the amount I brought back today I'm struggling to find it hard to believe)

How often do you see notes on doors saying please leave parcel at/in xyz?
when people know its coming they can plan, now it doesn't have to be next day, but with that short window of time you are less likely to forget to unlock the garage and put a note on the door.
Not a lot of people would be happy to have their garage unlocked and leave a note advertising the fact for a week or so waiting for something turn up; but in a lot of cases, just for a few hours, is a reasonable risk to take to save the hassle of arranging a re-delivery or braving a visit to the local (or not so local) enquiry office

[toomuchcoke]

Moving on to people who don't see why next day delivery is so important to people.

It's important to some people, others are more likely to pick the cheapest possible delivery option even if it means waiting longer! However from the RM's perspective it costs the basically the same to transport a parcel from Edinburgh to London no matter if it's next-day delivery or "some time in the next week" delivery, but we can charge more (quite possibly a lot more!) for the next-day stuff! Higher profit per parcel => higher company profits => higher pay!

[steve1873]

But the public, the people we deliver to, are not the customer.
Q How much does Mrs Smith at No32 pay RM to have her mail delivered?
A.£0.00p.
So what right does she have to make demands about a service she's not paying for.

So if I order a parcel/tickets/<insert item> and pay the postage am I not the customer? (indirectly admittedly) after all I've paid for the service! - The company has been paid (by me) to then sort out the picking, packing and sending of the item!

After all they are trying to push us as a 'parcels' company ;)

No, you are the customer of the company selling the tickets. You haven't actually paid the postage as you have no contract with RM. What you have done is have the cost of postage passed on to you by the ticket/ parcel vendor.

[Surreypostie]

But the public, the people we deliver to, are not the customer.
Q How much does Mrs Smith at No32 pay RM to have her mail delivered?
A.£0.00p.
So what right does she have to make demands about a service she's not paying for.

So if I order a parcel/tickets/<insert item> and pay the postage am I not the customer? (indirectly admittedly) after all I've paid for the service! - The company has been paid (by me) to then sort out the picking, packing and sending of the item!

After all they are trying to push us as a 'parcels' company ;)

But if you order the same thing from 2 companies they have a choice who to send it through. One may use RM, but the other might use DPD. If they use DPD how can you be a customer of Royal Mail.

We want the companies to RM, and one way to convince them is to give their customers a good service. The quicker they get the item the better (less complaining time).

Unfortunately despite preferring the 5 am starts and 1300 finishes, I think for the business later starts may be better. But deliveries over 4:30 is a no go for me.

Is that the end of the delivery time or the span but in any event 4:30pm on a Saturday and most of the workforce will leave so the managers better bring better footwear and cancel their season tickets and the golf club subs as they will be doing it all.

Have to disagree with you there, most of the staff will not leave just because the job moves to a 4.30 finish on a saturday, a lot will be happy they can go out on the piss on a friday night, also, there just aren't the jobs out there with the same terms and conditions as ours. It is still a good job and still will be, just a lot different to when we all started.

[k979aaa]

But the public, the people we deliver to, are not the customer.
Q How much does Mrs Smith at No32 pay RM to have her mail delivered?
A.£0.00p.
So what right does she have to make demands about a service she's not paying for.

So if I order a parcel/tickets/<insert item> and pay the postage am I not the customer? (indirectly admittedly) after all I've paid for the service! - The company has been paid (by me) to then sort out the picking, packing and sending of the item!

After all they are trying to push us as a 'parcels' company ;)

But if you order the same thing from 2 companies they have a choice who to send it through. One may use RM, but the other might use DPD. If they use DPD how can you be a customer of Royal Mail.

We want the companies to RM, and one way to convince them is to give their customers a good service. The quicker they get the item the better (less complaining time).

Unfortunately despite preferring the 5 am starts and 1300 finishes, I think for the business later starts may be better. But deliveries over 4:30 is a no go for me.

Is that the end of the delivery time or the span but in any event 4:30pm on a Saturday and most of the workforce will leave so the managers better bring better footwear and cancel their season tickets and the golf club subs as they will be doing it all.

Have to disagree with you there, most of the staff will not leave just because the job moves to a 4.30 finish on a saturday, a lot will be happy they can go out on the piss on a friday night, also, there just aren't the jobs out there with the same terms and conditions as ours. It is still a good job and still will be, just a lot different to when we all started.

Wonder if you will say the same when your pension is slashed and you will be doing a six hour outdoor stint.

[claretandblue]

How many people are going to pay for next day delvery ? Look at specials, how many do you get per day ? I mean proper specials not the foreign no sig ones. Why does everyone have to start later when just a few parcels per round could be delivered by special packet duties in the afternoon.

[Surreypostie]

But the public, the people we deliver to, are not the customer.
Q How much does Mrs Smith at No32 pay RM to have her mail delivered?
A.£0.00p.
So what right does she have to make demands about a service she's not paying for.

So if I order a parcel/tickets/<insert item> and pay the postage am I not the customer? (indirectly admittedly) after all I've paid for the service! - The company has been paid (by me) to then sort out the picking, packing and sending of the item!

After all they are trying to push us as a 'parcels' company ;)

But if you order the same thing from 2 companies they have a choice who to send it through. One may use RM, but the other might use DPD. If they use DPD how can you be a customer of Royal Mail.

We want the companies to RM, and one way to convince them is to give their customers a good service. The quicker they get the item the better (less complaining time).

Unfortunately despite preferring the 5 am starts and 1300 finishes, I think for the business later starts may be better. But deliveries over 4:30 is a no go for me.

Is that the end of the delivery time or the span but in any event 4:30pm on a Saturday and most of the workforce will leave so the managers better bring better footwear and cancel their season tickets and the golf club subs as they will be doing it all.

Have to disagree with you there, most of the staff will not leave just because the job moves to a 4.30 finish on a saturday, a lot will be happy they can go out on the piss on a friday night, also, there just aren't the jobs out there with the same terms and conditions as ours. It is still a good job and still will be, just a lot different to when we all started.

Wonder if you will say the same when your pension is slashed and you will be doing a six hour outdoor stint.

That's nothing to do with my post, the claim was, most people will leave if we have to work until 4.30 on a saturday. Pensions and six hour deliveries were not mentioned.

If the pension is slashed I will take it all out as soon as possible, if I have to do a 6 hour stint outdoor, that's fine, the indoor bit bores the pants off me to be honest and I'll only do a 6 hour stint if the duty has time for it.

[Chewster]

I've got to say, I'm really not looking forward to the 9-5 (I was actually told 10-6?) arrangement. One of the things that attracted me (and plenty others) to this job is finishing nice and early, even if that means an unsociable start time. And I have to say, the vast majority of customers want their mail/packets as early in the day as possible. I also think that there are a few major impracticalities to a 9-5 day. Aside from 1pm special deliveries being all but impossible, you'd be out delivering in heavier traffic. In my office, a 6.30am start generally means leaving the office around 9am-ish and being back around 1-2pm-ish. Logic would dictate that starting 3ish hours later would mean leaving at lunch time (always major traffic in my town at least), working through the school rush, then finishing at rush hour. Doesn't sound like that big a deal, but it could have pretty big consequences on town duties. Also, NOBODY WILL BLOODY BE IN!!!

[crazyshrew]

I've got to say, I'm really not looking forward to the 9-5 (I was actually told 10-6?)
the vast majority of customers want their mail/packets as early in the day as possible
Logic would dictate that starting 3ish hours later would mean leaving at lunch time

Different offices will have to have different start times depending on their distance form the Mail centre and, in what order the MC processes the mail. So it could well be anywhere between 8am and 11am

The vast majority of house holds (not customers as they haven't paid a penny to us for the service we give them) that I deliver to, aren't home during the day any way so the time they get their mail is irrelevant. I'm just about old enough to remember the post arrive just before everyone would leave the house for school/work but those days are long gone. If your out of the house between 7am and 7pm what difference does it make if your mail arrives at 4pm instead of 10am?

You would actually be leaving somewhere between 09-30 and 10-00 as there will be an absolute minimum of indoor work to do. No IPS or prep. Just tidying up a few odd strays and then out the door leaving about the same time we do now.
As a result of there being next to no indoor work you'll be out side on deliver 2-3 hrs longer hence the later finish.


My only issue with the later finish is delivering in the dark. I know lots of you used to do it back in old days, but there is a big difference between heading out fresh as a daisy first thing on a dark morning, and being absolutely bloody knackered, physically and mentally when darkness falls while your still out there.

[SpacePhoenix]

Different offices will have to have different start times depending on their distance form the Mail centre and, in what order the MC processes the mail. So it could well be anywhere between 8am and 11am

Apart from sequenced mail all mail for all DOs covered by a MC is sorted togther

[steve1873]

I've got to say, I'm really not looking forward to the 9-5 (I was actually told 10-6?)
the vast majority of customers want their mail/packets as early in the day as possible
Logic would dictate that starting 3ish hours later would mean leaving at lunch time

Different offices will have to have different start times depending on their distance form the Mail centre and, in what order the MC processes the mail. So it could well be anywhere between 8am and 11am

The vast majority of house holds (not customers as they haven't paid a penny to us for the service we give them) that I deliver to, aren't home during the day any way so the time they get their mail is irrelevant. I'm just about old enough to remember the post arrive just before everyone would leave the house for school/work but those days are long gone. If your out of the house between 7am and 7pm what difference does it make if your mail arrives at 4pm instead of 10am?

You would actually be leaving somewhere between 09-30 and 10-00 as there will be an absolute minimum of indoor work to do. No IPS or prep. Just tidying up a few odd strays and then out the door leaving about the same time we do now.
As a result of there being next to no indoor work you'll be out side on deliver 2-3 hrs longer hence the later finish.


My only issue with the later finish is delivering in the dark. I know lots of you used to do it back in old days, but there is a big difference between heading out fresh as a daisy first thing on a dark morning, and being absolutely bloody knackered, physically and mentally when darkness falls while your still out there.

There is also the difference of, in the past albeit dark, it was only getting lighter as the morning progressed. Delivering after 3pm in the winter, it is only getting darker and darker. To the point where it is basically night time around 4pm. As you say delivering in the dark whilst fatigued is not really something that our company should be looking to do! But the truth is, now more than ever, our safety and well being is well down the list of priorities. It is all about profit from here on out.

[Chewster]

I've got to say, I'm really not looking forward to the 9-5 (I was actually told 10-6?)
the vast majority of customers want their mail/packets as early in the day as possible
Logic would dictate that starting 3ish hours later would mean leaving at lunch time

Different offices will have to have different start times depending on their distance form the Mail centre and, in what order the MC processes the mail. So it could well be anywhere between 8am and 11am

The vast majority of house holds (not customers as they haven't paid a penny to us for the service we give them) that I deliver to, aren't home during the day any way so the time they get their mail is irrelevant. I'm just about old enough to remember the post arrive just before everyone would leave the house for school/work but those days are long gone. If your out of the house between 7am and 7pm what difference does it make if your mail arrives at 4pm instead of 10am?

You would actually be leaving somewhere between 09-30 and 10-00 as there will be an absolute minimum of indoor work to do. No IPS or prep. Just tidying up a few odd strays and then out the door leaving about the same time we do now.
As a result of there being next to no indoor work you'll be out side on deliver 2-3 hrs longer hence the later finish.


My only issue with the later finish is delivering in the dark. I know lots of you used to do it back in old days, but there is a big difference between heading out fresh as a daisy first thing on a dark morning, and being absolutely bloody knackered, physically and mentally when darkness falls while your still out there.

I keep seeing people saying that there will be minimum of indoor work to do, but how? Even if all the mail was sequenced, what about d2d, redirections, and the inevitable missorts that the machines WILL have? And packets of course? And specials?