Silence is golden...

motherhubbard · Post by **motherhubbard** » 19 Feb 2016, 15:11

dingo wrote:.... the Policy forum to be held on 22nd and 23rd March.

Just for clarity, that is still 2016 isn't it?

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 19 Feb 2016, 15:23

I understand why you may think that Fish with all the scaremongering and lack of official information. However I think your be happy to note that Royal Mail cannot move to one wave without either National or Local Agreement. Any move to one wave would need changes to times of attendance at the MPU and delivery office.

In fact one wave only really delivers any savings if it moves to bench merging .

The other parts of the strategy is further long term.

The fact is no one should be agreeing to move to one wave whilst the OMP trail is still going on !

Now surely we will be able to say no in all offices and surely the National Union can also confirm this ! It is in the policy document !

As for London I can give a guarantee that we are not going to agree one wave without a National Agreement with benefits and safeguards and without a vote !

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 19 Feb 2016, 15:34

Royal Mail is already pushing for unagreed savings and later starts in delivery offices in anticipation of one wave dingo, they aren't stupid and they don't need a national agreement to do it. They are preparing the groundwork while we slap our backs , it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious, they plan their attacks, we piss about looking in the wrong direction.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 19 Feb 2016, 15:38

If you seriously think these offices who haven't seen a divisional rep in decades or an area rep in years are going to hold a line the can't see or f***ing understand then I'll have whatever you're drinking.

Rommagic · Post by **Rommagic** » 19 Feb 2016, 16:33

Some people are let off the ips sorting everyday yet they finish early they can't have it both ways? With the new machines not much if any ips plus door2doors together should be more equal then?

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 19 Feb 2016, 17:44

Royal Mail have been moving to later starts since 2007 and have been making yearly savings for decades.

Where is the link to one wave ? Remember they can only move to one wave in about 65% of offices and they want to trail not roll out in the offices linked to Glasgow Mail Centre , North Midlands Mail Centre and Mount Pleasent and they are saying in those offices they want to keep the same out on delivery time.

The CWU have thus far rejected this.

Royal Mail are not in a postion to roll out one wave or otherwise they would not be asking for a pilot !

Now I get the fact that some units might be under pressure from proposals on later starts and savings but are they linked to the one plan strategy. As every year a Director gets a budget task of around 6% bearing in mind Royal Mail's turn over is 9 billion and our wages and terms and conditions amount to about 4.5 billion they will always be looking at savings !

Now that is not to down dial the threat of one wave it is real but let's not get confused with normal service under a privatised company which we should use the IR framework over and a game changing Royal Mail Strategy based on one wave which Royal Mail which the union has set out a clear plan we are not agreeing one wave or the OMP without the ability to deliver from 0:7:30 in the morning !

Post by **The Quiet Man** » 19 Feb 2016, 19:05

Dingo, as an ex employee (so nothing to gain by siding with anyone)......in this statement you come across as Management rather than Union which is is disastrous!

Troubled days ahead methinks but the folks here should be be looking for someone to give assurance against their worst fears........you're not coming across as a Saviour.

Good luck to all involved.

TQM

Post by **dvbuk55** » 19 Feb 2016, 20:40

Of course he is, the saviour of the status quo for the union hierarchy and of course Lunnun, still hanging fire from the 2010 agreement six years on

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 19 Feb 2016, 23:12

The Quiet Man wrote:Dingo, as an ex employee (so nothing to gain by siding with anyone)......in this statement you come across as Management rather than Union which is is disastrous!

Troubled days ahead methinks but the folks here should be be looking for someone to give assurance against their worst fears........you're not coming across as a Saviour.

Good luck to all involved.

TQM

My thoughts exactly "quiet man". Our leadership need to get the finger out of their arses and focus on matters that effect delivery staff on a daily basis. As for the ongoing pay talks, "hello" we alll know since the last 3 year deal was struck, that March 2016 would eventually come around, pity our leaders did not have any foresight and have plans afoot to address any new deal. It's scandalous in the simplest description. Dingo try's to defend the undefendable in many cases. I want a union to STAND up for the poorly represented delivery staff ! that are continually bullied, harassed, trod on and treated like s..t every day by a RM management structure that is like a throw back to Dickensian times. Bob Gibson on these years of unchallenged draconian activities should hold his head in shame on the well documented treatment handed out on delivery staff and his lack of interest far less action does appear to be that, they are in fact in the pockets of Moyà et al. A disgrace for any Union to adopt a policy of ignoring even the basic rights of members being treated unfairly at work, under the IR framework, haha, another cop out for them to hide. Come on show the membership leadership qualities, man up, it is not too much to ask !or is it ??

Post by **POSTMAN** » 20 Feb 2016, 00:55

No,Dingo is not management,Dingo gives out information,information that you would not normally get and some of the information he puts out is not liked.
That does no make him a manager.

Move on from that bollox,yes we don't always agree with some of his personal thoughts,but we all don't agree with others on here as well.

franco1 · Post by **franco1** » 20 Feb 2016, 07:31

A union only has a certain amount of ammo at its disposal.
It's like trying to outfox a fox.
A company puts forth a business plan.
The union then has to try to find a reason why it would not benefit the members AND if possible the company.
Understand that the main priority is to safeguard jobs and conditions.
If company propose a change that will increase profits the union cannot just simply say no because we want things to remain how they are.
They need to find a valid reason why it's not acceptable.
Remember RM profits ultimately mean increased wages.
We should count ourselves fortunate that we even have union which will fight for those profits to be turned into increased wages. Many employees don't see increased profit come their way.

suz67 · Post by **suz67** » 20 Feb 2016, 14:41

Pay deal will be one hour off working week,down to 38 hours,and 2% pay rise no strings attached,just wait and see.

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 20 Feb 2016, 15:01

POSTMAN wrote:No,Dingo is not management,Dingo gives out information,information that you would not normally get and some of the information he puts out is not liked.
That does no make him a manager.

Move on from that bollox,yes we don't always agree with some of his personal thoughts,but we all don't agree with others on here as well.

Well, if dingo is not part of the management, he must surely accept and possibly you ! that talking personally as an overworked, over stressed postman I need the union to be more pro active with the basic treatment of members at a grass root level. We can all have view on working with a new private regime and that profit inow plays a big part in all our futures. But, this should never be to the detriment of bullied staff "never"! We deserve to be treated with dignity and not under constant derision from a management system that freely abuses staff routinely and our CWU representatives choose to ignore that ongoing harassment of its members rather than challenge management and put a stop to this unfair practice. Are we just to accept this treatment or fight back ? All the past hard fought for conditions rely on a strong union leadership to protect and preserve them, not one that lies back and allows RM management to run rough shod over staff with impunity. Your comment regarding Dingo not being part of management is accepted but, you also confirm ,he is often the bearer of bad news or quote " information you would not normally get " unquote! It would appear that all is not clearly transparent with the working ethic of our leaders, something I had hoped would have changed with Dave Ward as GS. I believe strongly in the ballot box by the way, and the right to a good rant on a soap box - especially on basic workers rights. Something being neglected by our CWU leaders.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 20 Feb 2016, 15:29

I am a Rep who does more than talking and your find that the part of the UK where we don't wait for someone from Wimbledon to come and rescue us we organise ourselves and we fight and don't accept what Royal Mail want.

The problem with too many on this board and social media is you don't want to fight to protect your office from Royal Mail you want either an Area Rep , Divisional or National Rep to do it for you ! That is not how it should work !

The union starts in your office ! If you and your colleagues don't think what Royal Mail are doing is right than why don't you do something about it and demand you get help from your Branch , Divisional Or National !

Let's be clear when I was a local rep we walked if there was a manager being out of order !

We have a legal IR framework but hardly any local offices are using it when there are issues why ?

Now for the record I was talking about the Strategy and next steps ! I get accused of being a manager yet I say we are not having one wave in London and we will fight to stop it ! Hardly management talk !

Post by **trythat** » 20 Feb 2016, 20:11

dingo wrote:I am a Rep who does more than talking and your find that the part of the UK where we don't wait for someone from Wimbledon to come and rescue us we organise ourselves and we fight and don't accept what Royal Mail want.

The problem with too many on this board and social media is you don't want to fight to protect your office from Royal Mail you want either an Area Rep , Divisional or National Rep to do it for you ! That is not how it should work !

The union starts in your office ! If you and your colleagues don't think what Royal Mail are doing is right than why don't you do something about it and demand you get help from your Branch , Divisional Or National !

Let's be clear when I was a local rep we walked if there was a manager being out of order !

We have a legal IR framework but hardly any local offices are using it when there are issues why ?

Now for the record I was talking about the Strategy and next steps ! I get accused of being a manager yet I say we are not having one wave in London and we will fight to stop it ! Hardly management talk !

Must say I agree with quite a lot of what you've said here. There are to many people who complain about their local reps but aren't willing to step forward and challenge the rep in place. Or what used to annoy me was I'd struggle to get a sub rep, so asked if a few would be willing to form a committee - guess how many volunteered - thats right NONE.

People can't keep moaning and hoping someone else will sort their problems out.

We've got our AGM coming up in the next couple of weeks, and generally we have some one from HQ attend. If other branches are the same how many people attend their AGM and make their views felt, it's only a couple of hours one Saturday a year. It's quite demoralising when going to AGM and most of the people their are either reps or ex-reps.

Moan over