Dragging it out

[bustedflush]

if I was paired with someone who was particularly slow and I wanted to finish on my time I wouldn't moan and bitch about it, I would just do it.

That is easy to say when you are big enough and experienced enough to do it - not so easy when you are young and inexperienced and not fully informed of your rights.
And why should anyone have to go through the stress of having to follow the cutting off procedure every day when all they want to do is go to work, do their job and go home.

And while I understand TBT's post, if the problem lies between a full timer and a part timer, then it is easily seen as the union protecting the rights of a full timer over the rights of a part timer and that is divisive.
I obviously don't have the figures, but I would guess that the vast majority of reps are full timers and I would guess that a lot of part time staff feel that they are woefully represented by this union.

Hear hear!
OK fishtank, what happens if the slow person is the van driver and has to bring YOU back, thus exacerbating the situation?
What if YOU are the driver and the slow cannot drive, and you want to finish on your time?
If they are the driver how do you feel standing in the p*ssing rain for 15-20 minutes 4 times per day doing NOTHING bar getting angry and frustrated while you wait?
Then the daily arguments and stress about cutting-off?

Therefore I believe my DO has it right. They get their own van, don't hold anybody up bar themselves and no arguments with people refusing to go out with them. Our DO actually tries to pair the slows together when possible, thus they only upset each other. The other posties laughingly call them 'The Dream Team' when this occurs....

[k979aaa]

You can run all you want but you will not finish any earlier as you will not be able to hide with the new PDA's maybe the old slow one's are right and you are a silly billy goat sometimes common-sense will prevail but in your case god help us all.

[jetblack]

As a side note, I reckon the union reps should be thinking long and hard about showing misguided loyalty to this sort of employee also - helping one crook like this is shafting a hundred of us - and we are paying our dues as well.

It's not misguided loyalty. It's a proper division of responsibility.

If someone isn't working to standards the Union are there to protect and defend him, when and if he is accused of such by management. Full Stop.

Interesting subject.

Was the guy (the lawyer) that got OJ Simpson off the hook serving the black community well or not ? I mean, was he noble, was he a noble man, that lawyer ? I dunno.

No money out of my pocket, of course not no - but as a long standing hardline and active union member, am I better off for the union backing crooks ? Well, you tell me.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

[eastie]

First of all there are no " minimum acceptable standards " for outdoor work so judging the performance of others is a pointless waste of time. Secondly if I was paired with someone who was particularly slow and I wanted to finish on my time I wouldn't moan and bitch about it, I would just do it, thirdly I couldn't give a flying f**k what someone else is earning or what they do to earn it, it makes no difference to my wages, fourthly and don't take this too personally folks but...get a life.

EXACTLY
We have people in my office who know what time people started, when they came back , who booked what, who took a van home etc
I couldn't give a monkeys, I go in at my start time and finish at my finish time, NO going in early , NO going over.
If I'm with a slow partner of fast partner I do the same speed I always do .
Why do others make the job so complicated ?

[k979aaa]

First of all there are no " minimum acceptable standards " for outdoor work so judging the performance of others is a pointless waste of time. Secondly if I was paired with someone who was particularly slow and I wanted to finish on my time I wouldn't moan and bitch about it, I would just do it, thirdly I couldn't give a flying f**k what someone else is earning or what they do to earn it, it makes no difference to my wages, fourthly and don't take this too personally folks but...get a life.

EXACTLY
We have people in my office who know what time people started, when they came back , who booked what, who took a van home etc
I couldn't give a monkeys, I go in at my start time and finish at my finish time, NO going in early , NO going over.
If I'm with a slow partner of fast partner I do the same speed I always do .
Why do others make the job so complicated ?

Jealousy

[TrueBlueTerrier]

As a side note, I reckon the union reps should be thinking long and hard about showing misguided loyalty to this sort of employee also - helping one crook like this is shafting a hundred of us - and we are paying our dues as well.

It's not misguided loyalty. It's a proper division of responsibility.

If someone isn't working to standards the Union are there to protect and defend him, when and if he is accused of such by management. Full Stop.

Interesting subject.

Was the guy (the lawyer) that got OJ Simpson off the hook serving the black community well or not? I mean, was he noble, was he a noble man, that lawyer? I dunno.

No money out of my pocket, of course not no - but as a long standing hardline and active union member, am I better off for the union backing crooks ? Well, you tell me.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

It doesn't matter if he was or wasn't serving the community well or not, that wasn't his job. You don't sacrifice individual rights to the state/community/workforce because you think someone's is guilty. That way lies kangaroo courts and perhaps state trials like the Nazis and Soviets performed. The union is there to protect the workforce from management, not other workers. Managers are the prosecutors and the Union are the defenders. Even the guilty have a right to proper representation, otherwise, we have mob justice.

[bustedflush]

You can run all you want but you will not finish any earlier as you will not be able to hide with the new PDA's maybe the old slow one's are right and you are a silly billy goat sometimes common-sense will prevail but in your case god help us all.

Yeah, of course. let's all go out of our way to be unproductive, inefficient and annoying to colleagues. And then us 'silly billy goats' can join you 'wise billy goats' down the job centre when RM's costs escalate out of control.

And IF the new all-seeing all-hearing PDA's are applied by the DIMS to spy on us, who do you think will be called to account? The quicker/normal paced ones who finish a few minutes early or on their time, whether they spent the last 30 minutes sitting in the van when done or not, or the ones crawling along taking the p*ss any maybe getting OT too?

Because with that statement you've made a rod for your own back and contradicted your own argument. You see the new PDA's are being issued to us personally in our office, so this 'snatch and grab' from the charging cabinet will be a thing of the past. The DIMS WILL easily see the heel-draggers and they will be exposed; a blind-eye (which I repeat I favour!) will be harder for them to turn.

[k979aaa]

You can run all you want but you will not finish any earlier as you will not be able to hide with the new PDA's maybe the old slow one's are right and you are a silly billy goat sometimes common-sense will prevail but in your case god help us all.

Yeah, of course. let's all go out of our way to be unproductive, inefficient and annoying to colleagues. And then us 'silly billy goats' can join you 'wise billy goats' down the job centre when RM's costs escalate out of control.

And IF the new all-seeing all-hearing PDA's are applied by the DIMS to spy on us, who do you think will be called to account? The quicker/normal paced ones who finish a few minutes early or on their time, whether they spent the last 30 minutes sitting in the van when done or not, or the ones crawling along taking the p*ss any maybe getting OT too?

Because with that statement you've made a rod for your own back and contradicted your own argument. You see the new PDA's are being issued to us personally in our office, so this 'snatch and grab' from the charging cabinet will be a thing of the past. The DIMS WILL easily see the heel-draggers and they will be exposed; a blind-eye (which I repeat I favour!) will be harder for them to turn.

Go and work yourself to death and do us all a favour and god bless RM might even give you a medal for it I am quite sure they could do without you and not collapse as the whole business is stacked to the roof in heel-draggers!

[jetblack]

As a side note, I reckon the union reps should be thinking long and hard about showing misguided loyalty to this sort of employee also - helping one crook like this is shafting a hundred of us - and we are paying our dues as well.

It's not misguided loyalty. It's a proper division of responsibility.

If someone isn't working to standards the Union are there to protect and defend him, when and if he is accused of such by management. Full Stop.

Interesting subject.

Was the guy (the lawyer) that got OJ Simpson off the hook serving the black community well or not? I mean, was he noble, was he a noble man, that lawyer? I dunno.

No money out of my pocket, of course not no - but as a long standing hardline and active union member, am I better off for the union backing crooks ? Well, you tell me.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

You don't sacrifice individual rights to the state/community/workforce because you think someone's is guilty.

But you do if he is guilty, presumably ? We can agree on that much surely.

So lets say we have an out and out crook - we know (the workers and the union reps) that he's an out and out crook cos we work with him day in and day out and experience it at first hand.

The management don't - and so are powerless.

Thats like saying I was a witness to a crime but I'm going to deny, when push comes to shove, that I saw anything - cos, well, its not my job to judge. I shall abdicate my responsibility.
The courts are , therefore, powerless - and justice is out the window.


Listen - I know what its like to be without. And I would fight the corner of anyone wronged or discriminated against through genuine reasons when they are only trying to earn a decent living for themselves and their families.
But I draw the line at backing crooks.

Its a fine line between being a defender of the rights of the oppressed and being a soft touch.

Personally, I'd use my discretion.

[bustedflush]

You can run all you want but you will not finish any earlier as you will not be able to hide with the new PDA's maybe the old slow one's are right and you are a silly billy goat sometimes common-sense will prevail but in your case god help us all.

Yeah, of course. let's all go out of our way to be unproductive, inefficient and annoying to colleagues. And then us 'silly billy goats' can join you 'wise billy goats' down the job centre when RM's costs escalate out of control.

And IF the new all-seeing all-hearing PDA's are applied by the DIMS to spy on us, who do you think will be called to account? The quicker/normal paced ones who finish a few minutes early or on their time, whether they spent the last 30 minutes sitting in the van when done or not, or the ones crawling along taking the p*ss any maybe getting OT too?

Because with that statement you've made a rod for your own back and contradicted your own argument. You see the new PDA's are being issued to us personally in our office, so this 'snatch and grab' from the charging cabinet will be a thing of the past. The DIMS WILL easily see the heel-draggers and they will be exposed; a blind-eye (which I repeat I favour!) will be harder for them to turn.

Go and work yourself to death and do us all a favour and god bless RM might even give you a medal for it I am quite sure they could do without you and not collapse as the whole business is stacked to the roof in heel-draggers!

Grow up. You sound like a petulant child. I am not 'working myself to death' and nor is anyone else I know. I simply (like most posties that give a toss) drag myself out of my pit each day, and using a smidgeon of self-respect and effort apply myself to the task in hand in order to achieve its completion within my hours which barring exceptional circumstances is usually accomplished.

[hampshireman]

You can run all you want but you will not finish any earlier as you will not be able to hide with the new PDA's maybe the old slow one's are right and you are a silly billy goat sometimes common-sense will prevail but in your case god help us all.

Yeah, of course. let's all go out of our way to be unproductive, inefficient and annoying to colleagues. And then us 'silly billy goats' can join you 'wise billy goats' down the job centre when RM's costs escalate out of control.

And IF the new all-seeing all-hearing PDA's are applied by the DIMS to spy on us, who do you think will be called to account? The quicker/normal paced ones who finish a few minutes early or on their time, whether they spent the last 30 minutes sitting in the van when done or not, or the ones crawling along taking the p*ss any maybe getting OT too?

Because with that statement you've made a rod for your own back and contradicted your own argument. You see the new PDA's are being issued to us personally in our office, so this 'snatch and grab' from the charging cabinet will be a thing of the past. The DIMS WILL easily see the heel-draggers and they will be exposed; a blind-eye (which I repeat I favour!) will be harder for them to turn.

Always very sad to read stuff like this.

Posties always worried about speed!!!... And the quicker ones are good posties ; and others are?

I've said this before and will say again.
We (the postie collective) are our own worst enemies.

Lets shoot other posties ; because they are not runners ; because they are older than me ; because they do the job properly ; because they wish to work to time ; because etc , etc , etc.

It's effing depressing that 'we' will f*** each other over because of selfishness.

I see it in my office every day . People that are still on job and finish (and are allowed to because they get the OT ) and they are the runners etc.

The organisation is corrupt.

The management is corrupt.

OPG's are .... killing themselves with their own work ethic.

Comments over. Too tired after moving furniture around all day.

[k979aaa]

You can run all you want but you will not finish any earlier as you will not be able to hide with the new PDA's maybe the old slow one's are right and you are a silly billy goat sometimes common-sense will prevail but in your case god help us all.

Yeah, of course. let's all go out of our way to be unproductive, inefficient and annoying to colleagues. And then us 'silly billy goats' can join you 'wise billy goats' down the job centre when RM's costs escalate out of control.

And IF the new all-seeing all-hearing PDA's are applied by the DIMS to spy on us, who do you think will be called to account? The quicker/normal paced ones who finish a few minutes early or on their time, whether they spent the last 30 minutes sitting in the van when done or not, or the ones crawling along taking the p*ss any maybe getting OT too?

Because with that statement you've made a rod for your own back and contradicted your own argument. You see the new PDA's are being issued to us personally in our office, so this 'snatch and grab' from the charging cabinet will be a thing of the past. The DIMS WILL easily see the heel-draggers and they will be exposed; a blind-eye (which I repeat I favour!) will be harder for them to turn.

Go and work yourself to death and do us all a favour and god bless RM might even give you a medal for it I am quite sure they could do without you and not collapse as the whole business is stacked to the roof in heel-draggers!

Grow up. You sound like a petulant child. I am not 'working myself to death' and nor is anyone else I know. I simply (like most posties that give a toss) drag myself out of my pit each day, and using a smidgeon of self-respect and effort apply myself to the task in hand in order to achieve its completion within my hours which barring exceptional circumstances is usually accomplished.

You may not kill yourself but the job you certainly are and making it harder for the older folks in the job do you not think one day you will be as old as them and they worked just as hard as you do!

[bustedflush]

You can run all you want but you will not finish any earlier as you will not be able to hide with the new PDA's maybe the old slow one's are right and you are a silly billy goat sometimes common-sense will prevail but in your case god help us all.

Yeah, of course. let's all go out of our way to be unproductive, inefficient and annoying to colleagues. And then us 'silly billy goats' can join you 'wise billy goats' down the job centre when RM's costs escalate out of control.

And IF the new all-seeing all-hearing PDA's are applied by the DIMS to spy on us, who do you think will be called to account? The quicker/normal paced ones who finish a few minutes early or on their time, whether they spent the last 30 minutes sitting in the van when done or not, or the ones crawling along taking the p*ss any maybe getting OT too?

Because with that statement you've made a rod for your own back and contradicted your own argument. You see the new PDA's are being issued to us personally in our office, so this 'snatch and grab' from the charging cabinet will be a thing of the past. The DIMS WILL easily see the heel-draggers and they will be exposed; a blind-eye (which I repeat I favour!) will be harder for them to turn.

Go and work yourself to death and do us all a favour and god bless RM might even give you a medal for it I am quite sure they could do without you and not collapse as the whole business is stacked to the roof in heel-draggers!

Grow up. You sound like a petulant child. I am not 'working myself to death' and nor is anyone else I know. I simply (like most posties that give a toss) drag myself out of my pit each day, and using a smidgeon of self-respect and effort apply myself to the task in hand in order to achieve its completion within my hours which barring exceptional circumstances is usually accomplished.

You may not kill yourself but the job you certainly are and making it harder for the older folks in the job do you not think one day you will be as old as them and they worked just as hard as you do!

How am I 'killing' the job by doing it in my time, without running and coming in early? I am older than you think, and let me tell you in my DO most of the quickest guys are older than me, bar 2 or 3 younger 'runners'. Do you honestly think it would help you, me and everybody else if we all slowed down deliberately and dragged the jobs out? The 'product' would become worse, the costs higher. Didn't you learn from the disasters of 1970's British industries? They thought the same way as you and then suddenly found their jobs exported or industries broken down and flogged off. People with your mindset ended up giving us Thatcher.

[k979aaa]

You can run all you want but you will not finish any earlier as you will not be able to hide with the new PDA's maybe the old slow one's are right and you are a silly billy goat sometimes common-sense will prevail but in your case god help us all.

Yeah, of course. let's all go out of our way to be unproductive, inefficient and annoying to colleagues. And then us 'silly billy goats' can join you 'wise billy goats' down the job centre when RM's costs escalate out of control.

And IF the new all-seeing all-hearing PDA's are applied by the DIMS to spy on us, who do you think will be called to account? The quicker/normal paced ones who finish a few minutes early or on their time, whether they spent the last 30 minutes sitting in the van when done or not, or the ones crawling along taking the p*ss any maybe getting OT too?

Because with that statement you've made a rod for your own back and contradicted your own argument. You see the new PDA's are being issued to us personally in our office, so this 'snatch and grab' from the charging cabinet will be a thing of the past. The DIMS WILL easily see the heel-draggers and they will be exposed; a blind-eye (which I repeat I favour!) will be harder for them to turn.

Go and work yourself to death and do us all a favour and god bless RM might even give you a medal for it I am quite sure they could do without you and not collapse as the whole business is stacked to the roof in heel-draggers!

Grow up. You sound like a petulant child. I am not 'working myself to death' and nor is anyone else I know. I simply (like most posties that give a toss) drag myself out of my pit each day, and using a smidgeon of self-respect and effort apply myself to the task in hand in order to achieve its completion within my hours which barring exceptional circumstances is usually accomplished.

You may not kill yourself but the job you certainly are and making it harder for the older folks in the job do you not think one day you will be as old as them and they worked just as hard as you do!

How am I 'killing' the job by doing it in my time, without running and coming in early? I am older than you think, and let me tell you in my DO most of the quickest guys are older than me, bar 2 or 3 younger 'runners'. Do you honestly think it would help you, me and everybody else if we all slowed down deliberately and dragged the jobs out? The 'product' would become worse, the costs higher. Didn't you learn from the disasters of 1970's British industries? They thought the same way as you and then suddenly found their jobs exported or industries broken down and flogged off. People with your mindset ended up giving us Thatcher.

And you are Thatchers child are you not by all your blurbing of the 1970's makes me think of a a conservative MP but the people of your mindset would all have us slaves or subjugated in all manner of ways!

[steve1873]

if I was paired with someone who was particularly slow and I wanted to finish on my time I wouldn't moan and bitch about it, I would just do it.

That is easy to say when you are big enough and experienced enough to do it - not so easy when you are young and inexperienced and not fully informed of your rights.
And why should anyone have to go through the stress of having to follow the cutting off procedure every day when all they want to do is go to work, do their job and go home.

And while I understand TBT's post, if the problem lies between a full timer and a part timer, then it is easily seen as the union protecting the rights of a full timer over the rights of a part timer and that is divisive.
I obviously don't have the figures, but I would guess that the vast majority of reps are full timers and I would guess that a lot of part time staff feel that they are woefully represented by this union.

Hear hear!
OK fishtank, what happens if the slow person is the van driver and has to bring YOU back, thus exacerbating the situation?
What if YOU are the driver and the slow cannot drive, and you want to finish on your time?
If they are the driver how do you feel standing in the p*ssing rain for 15-20 minutes 4 times per day doing NOTHING bar getting angry and frustrated while you wait?
Then the daily arguments and stress about cutting-off?

Therefore I believe my DO has it right. They get their own van, don't hold anybody up bar themselves and no arguments with people refusing to go out with them. Our DO actually tries to pair the slows together when possible, thus they only upset each other. The other posties laughingly call them 'The Dream Team' when this occurs....

Awesome! So now you throw a bit B&H in there as well.