Long weekend for reserves question

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

What does it for me is a regular postman can make plans around his day off at anytime of the year because he knows when his day off falls..ie weekends away or make arrangement's on any given day reserves don't have that luxury and after 15 years service it's a bit much especially when people just come in the door and get these privileges that boils my water

question for you, these people just coming in the door, are they getting a duty whilst you are being left as reserve? if so why are you not pushing to get the duty put up for signing?

[P739]

What does it for me is a regular postman can make plans around his day off at anytime of the year because he knows when his day off falls..ie weekends away or make arrangement's on any given day reserves don't have that luxury and after 15 years service it's a bit much especially when people just come in the door and get these privileges that boils my water

question for you, these people just coming in the door, are they getting a duty whilst you are being left as reserve? if so why are you not pushing to get the duty put up for signing?

As a office we signed off that many full time duties to part time it's unbelievable plus getting over looked because i don't drive.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

What does it for me is a regular postman can make plans around his day off at anytime of the year because he knows when his day off falls..ie weekends away or make arrangement's on any given day reserves don't have that luxury and after 15 years service it's a bit much especially when people just come in the door and get these privileges that boils my water

question for you, these people just coming in the door, are they getting a duty whilst you are being left as reserve? if so why are you not pushing to get the duty put up for signing?

As a office we signed off that many full time duties to part time it's unbelievable plus getting over looked because i don't drive.

So do the duties go up for signing before a part timer is recruited from external?

[steve1873]

What does it for me is a regular postman can make plans around his day off at anytime of the year because he knows when his day off falls..ie weekends away or make arrangement's on any given day reserves don't have that luxury and after 15 years service it's a bit much especially when people just come in the door and get these privileges that boils my water

question for you, these people just coming in the door, are they getting a duty whilst you are being left as reserve? if so why are you not pushing to get the duty put up for signing?

As a office we signed off that many full time duties to part time it's unbelievable plus getting over looked because i don't drive.

I am not sure if I am understanding this correctly - but it would appear certain duties are 'ring fenced' for part time staff? This is normal so as to ensure there are enough FT reserves to be able to plan resourcing adequately.

It would be all well and good saying all full timers can get duties, but then what happens on their rest days when they are covered by PT staff who wont be in the building until later in the morning, meaning there isn't enough staff to carry our IPS and prep work?

At out place, during re-sign, they went so far down the list based on FT seniority and then stopped (so that there were enough FT staff to cover rotations and reserve duties), then it went to the most senior PT staff (Myself) and the list carried on until all duties were filled. The remaining PT staff were then allocated to PT rotations and reserve duties.

I know it might not seem fair, and in reality probably isn't, but each unit requires a certain amount of FT reserves and rotational staff, thus meaning often FT staff will be reserves whilst less senior PT staff will have their own duties.

It was 1 of main reasons I opted to remain 35 hours as I would not be senior enough to get my own duty if I moved up to FT hours.

[meercat]

so where exactly in employment law does it state everyone must be treated the same as if that is the case then everyone should be on a ft contract and it would be unfair to give some people full time contracts and some not

I JUST SHOWED YOU!!!

Did you read the Gov web site or not?! May I suggest you actually read a link when someone posts it?

''Part-time workers should get the same treatment for:''

Do you understand these simple words?



OK, so you are clearly twisting my words into something that you can attack because you are vitriolic. I did NOT say PT workers must be offered FT contracts!

Employees must be treated the same. THAT IS THE LAW!

''Part-time workers should get the same treatment for:''


Now please go and harass someone else.

[fishtank]

The treatment of part-time workers legislation only covers basic contractual terms and conditions and does not mean that all employees have to be treated the "same" in every aspect of their employment, only that there are genuine and justifiable business reasons for any difference in treatment.

[postslippete]

So do the duties go up for signing before a part timer is recruited from external?

That would be the fairest and most obvious way of doing things, but its never happened since the last revision in our office nearly 4 years ago

I don't know what the rules are regarding when an office is eligible for a resign and revision. Since the last revision we have had new sections introduced in our office whilst other sections have left. We have had experienced full-timers leave on redundancy to be replaced by new 18 hour bag-carriers. All this has happened and yet not one duty advertised on the boards!!

The reps are aware of what needs doing. It is for everyone's benefit, not just leave reserves or spares. What about those who are stuck on sh*t duty and wanting to go on another one? Maybe Im somewhat lucky that I have a duty where I know what my day/s off are but I certainly wouldn't go back to being a reserve again. The way some reserves are treated in our office i.e. being asked to go on another duty to the one they signed in for, working across different sections in the week with different partners or even being sent to another office. To be honest I really don't know why they get moved around so much. For example, if my partner is off for two weeks I don't know why they can't keep the same reserve (who isn't on holiday) on it for the full 2 weeks. Guess its too much like hard work for the DOM support in planning the shifts. So the reserve ends up working here, there and everywhere.

And the same can be said of the reps. I know they have a job on their hands in todays Royal Mail but when was our last Union meeting? They are not going to bother with issues like long weekends for reserves, getting vacant duties advertised or even 4 day working weeks in the office if it is too much like hard work. I spoke to my rep months ago about holding a Union meeting and still nothing has been arranged. Then again, when I see reps becoming managers, you can't help but think that most are only in it for themselves. One of our reps has been rewarded by management over Xmas by working in the Callers Office, for example. This business of management looking after the reps so that the reps look after management has been going on in the Royal Mail for years. I know they are supposed to work together but jumping into bed with management just causes staff apathy. And for those reps who are in it for the greater good I sincerely apologise if I appear to be tarring you all with the same brush.

Advice needed: Should I complain about the rep ringing up the Area Rep or would I be better off putting in a grievance against the Union Rep?? It would be on the grounds of being complacent and non-committed to Union members concerns

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

so where exactly in employment law does it state everyone must be treated the same as if that is the case then everyone should be on a ft contract and it would be unfair to give some people full time contracts and some not

I JUST SHOWED YOU!!!

Did you read the Gov web site or not?! May I suggest you actually read a link when someone posts it?

''Part-time workers should get the same treatment for:''

Do you understand these simple words?



OK, so you are clearly twisting my words into something that you can attack because you are vitriolic. I did NOT say PT workers must be offered FT contracts!

Employees must be treated the same. THAT IS THE LAW!

''Part-time workers should get the same treatment for:''


Now please go and harass someone else.

you clearly said every worker should be treated the same under employment law, now before you chipped in your tuppence worth about part time workers having protections, I quite clearly said that before you. Now you have said every worker should be treated the same under employment law, not just part time workers can you show anywhere that says everyone must be treated the same?

[meercat]

now before you chipped in your tuppence worth about part time workers having protections, I quite clearly said that before you.

But you directly ASKED me to TELL you about the law!!! That was the WHOLE BASIS of your post!!!!!!!!

You are complaining that I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION!!!!!!!! And trying to say 'I said that first'!!! You DID, but you then asked me to talk about it which I did!!!!

This is going absolutely nowhere as you keep asking me to 'show you where it says so and so' and I have already posted the link - it was on the last page!

[meercat]

The treatment of part-time workers legislation only covers basic contractual terms and conditions and does not mean that all employees have to be treated the "same" in every aspect of their employment, only that there are genuine and justifiable business reasons for any difference in treatment.

Exactly, that's why I said on the last page-
'So the law is black and white, PT + FT should be treated the same unless an ‘objective justification’ excuse is cited.'

And while you say 'only.....basic contractual terms and conditions' are covered, that is a BIG 'only'.
Let's re-phrase it this way - 'All significant contractual terms and conditions must be the same.' That's what I meant by must be treated 'the same'.

Now as I said there is some grey area here over exceptions to the general rule about everyone being treated 'the same'. I would ask - are rotating weekends being denied to certain staff because of a good reasonor just through laziness on behalf of shift planners? I see no good reason (the terminology used on the Gov website I linked to) why in a company of this size a small percentage of people need to be denied ESSENTIAL regular days off on a Sat for such things as FAMILY commitments etc. Does RM have an 'objective justification' (ie good reason) for this practice? I'd say no personally, our office could EASILY sort something out for the small handful of 22hr delivery contracts. So RM have no real requirement and could easily allow all delivery staff a 1in3 or 5 long weekend (as was formerly the situation) and because of that I believe they are in breach of the spirit of the law if not in technical breach (ie having no good reason).

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

now before you chipped in your tuppence worth about part time workers having protections, I quite clearly said that before you.

But you directly ASKED me to TELL you about the law!!! That was the WHOLE BASIS of your post!!!!!!!!

You are complaining that I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION!!!!!!!! And trying to say 'I said that first'!!! You DID, but you then asked me to talk about it which I did!!!!

This is going absolutely nowhere as you keep asking me to 'show you where it says so and so' and I have already posted the link - it was on the last page!

you have posted a link showing part time worker rights, however you said ALL employees must be treated the same under employment law, you have not shown anywhere in employment law that says ALL employees must be treated the same, I ask you again show me where it says in employment law that everyone must be treated the same, as the part time workers regulations ONLY apply to part time workers those rights contained for part time workers do not extend to full time workers

[Dorset Plodder]

I think we should call Time Out on this particular argument. There is obviously a difference between FULL-Time & PART Time. So they can't be treated equally, as such. However I do agree that more of an effort should be made to comply with the "Spirit" of the Agreement if not the "Letter" of it.

We all know though that in the majority of DOs the "Old Mafia" will not give a shite that their Part Time Reserves are not getting any Long Weekends (or indeed Saturdays) off. Provided they're getting theirs it's the usual...."I'm alright Jack...."

We also know that Lazy Incompetent Managers will not try and be fair & equal about things like this. They're just going to keep the Brown Nosers, Runners, Overtime Bandits & Whingers Happy at the expense of the Ordinary Postie who is working "Properly" and not going out of their way to kiss his arse, or work for free!