Van tyre/wheel replacement

[ikybear]

I was asked last week *to* change a tyre (by a lino)

[Lounge Lizard]

Myself and a couple of other staff have been trained to change wheels. We have to have cones and warning signs out etc. However they won't let us use trolley jacks or torque wrenches as we're not trained to use them. It really makes a mockery of the health and safety aspect since I'm sure that using the crappy vehicle jacks constantly is much more dangerous than a trolley jack.

As to the reason why they want only trained personnel changing them, we had a lad lose a wheel a couple of years ago after forgetting to tighten the wheel nuts after a change.

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[Lounge Lizard]

Can't change a wheel on the van, there isn't a spare in them

With regards the odd and rare incident whereby a postie has forgotten to tighten up the wheel nuts - the very same thing could happen if it were the mechanic changing the wheel. Its called human error. Its annoying, I know, but unavoidable, even in the best of systems with countless checks and balances.
.

The difference being that the mechanic is paid not to make a mistake, and he'll face the inevitable consequences if he does, whereas a postie is not judged to be competent using tools and if RM permits/turns a blind eye when he changes a wheel, then RM is in deep shite.
I don't suppose you'd be too happy if that "odd incident" led to your family being wiped out though?

No, I'm sorry, that isn't a good enough argument. You are gonna have to provide figures to back it up. How many times has a family been wiped out in the last 50 years due to a postman failing to tighten his wheel nuts correctly ?

I don't have the figures to hand - but I'm guessing zero - which makes your argument little better than scaremongering. A moral panic, with no justification in the real world.
I understand that RM wants to cover its arse and everything - but how would it not be liable if a mechanic failed to torque up a wheel correctly ?
And how long would it take to show someone how to use a torque wrench ? 1/2 hour ?

Like I say, and others have said, if others wish to have the RAC change a wheel for them I have absolutely no problem with that. I myself though am prepared to take responsibility (and liability if need be) - and so should be allowed to change a wheel (as indeed I did for circa 17 years with absolutely no issues).

Just do what I haven't done.

I haven't changed a RM tyre by myself without training while out in the arse end of nowhere, taking just 15 mins.

I then didn't get back and tell the lino that there's a flat in the back which the AA bloke left in there after he got out to me and changed my tyre in record time.

LOL

And I haven't changed a RM tyre myself in the middle of nowhere. And I didn't then ring up the RAC at the end of the day to come out and "change" the wheel for me - or not to check the torque/take the flat away.

The problem is, in us (not) doing this, we are laying ourselves open to disciplinary action these days. Its wrong. We could, potentially, be disciplined for using common sense. Something is very wrong here.

A mechanic, a couple of years ago, told me it was the unions doing - not a management initiative.
If this is true, is there any CWU rep knocking about that cares to explain this ?

So just because something hasn't happened yet that makes it ok to take possible risks? You may well be capable of changing a wheel correctly and safely but what with an ever increasingly busy workload it is possible someone somewhere could rush this proceedure and cause a fatal accicident.
Prevention is certainly better than cure.

Why not do the job properly and stop me driving as well ? Maybe someone with an Advanced driving test pass could take over - just to be on the safe side. How about allowing me not to deliver to a mans house up the road cos he once suffered a psychotic episode 25 years ago when he was young and drank too much - always makes me feel edgy ? How about we say that everyone should have their hair cut to a regulation 1.5 inches - because, well, long hair might get stuck in the door and cause an accident ? How about RM save some money by refraining from sending me endless newsletters about the dangers of dogs/lifting incorrectly. Lets just not deliver to any houses that have dogs and not lift anything over and above the weight of a letter.

The irony is, is that they'll not let me change a wheel - cos it might (1 in a million chance) be dangerous - but they won't provide me with winter tyres (and/or a 4 wheel drive) for the ice and snow, even though there is overwhelming evidence to suggest this would prevent accidents. And why won't they ? Cos its too expensive. Seems to me that the appearence of managing risk is more important than the reality of managing risk.

Listen - its all probabilities and balancing risk - none of us know for sure that the sun is going to come up tommorow morning, but I'd be prepared to put my house on it. Likewise, with regards risks of posties changing wheels, I'd say that the benefits far (far) outweigh the risks given the available evidence.

If you disagree post some facts and figures so that we can better weigh up the risks.

I'll say again, this week I made two 45 mile round trips to have a tyre replaced. This cost myself 2 hours and a colleague 1 hour (who was waiting for me) - thats 3 hours at overtime rate for RM. Whats that ? £33 ? Plus £5 in fuel perhaps ? Pushing £40 in total. To change a wheel. That 3 years back I would have had done in 5 minutes.

You say - oh, but its risky, its risky. I say, no, it isn't.

22½ miles on a flat tyre ?

[priority102]

It is like everything else, everything will be fine, corners cut, management allowing wheels to be changed without subsequent visits to the workshop for torquing so that they can get that extra little bit of absorption out of you etc etc until..........UNTIL that one incident that has never happened before (mentioned above)......happens.

Then.....that one innocent employee who changed that particular wheel on the day to help either themselves or their colleague out will be fully accountable for their actions on the day. DO NOT FORGET - when we were trained to change wheels we ALL signed a document at the end of the course stating that we were competent to do the task - and that included following correct procedure - from start of the job to finish. That signed document will be held on our employee records. Not having wheels torqued after changing a wheel means the procedure has not been followed correctly.
It will be a very sad day to see someone potentially lose their job......but it COULD happen.

I can only speak for myself obviously but if I change a wheel, I have previously and will in the future ensure that the vehicle is taken to the workshop within 60 miles / one week of the change to have the nuts torqued and if that causes an inconvenience so be it. ANY minor repairs we were trained to do and actually do still have to have a copy of the PMT submitted to the workshop and the workshop sign off that PMT off as job completed when the wheels have been torqued.

Summing up - far easier just to call out the RAC lol :)

[Tman]

I think Mr Black is more affronted by RM's assumption that he's not clever enough to change a wheel than any concerns over lost time, cost, etc etc. Talk about unnecessarily raising your head over the parapet...

[jetblack]

I think Mr Black is more affronted by RM's assumption that he's not clever enough to change a wheel than any concerns over lost time, cost, etc etc. Talk about unnecessarily raising your head over the parapet...

Slightly ad hominem argument, it has to be said. But very faintly amusing - so I'll let you have it.

As a matter of interest, do you have any facts re. accidents and injuries caused by a daft postie tightening a wheel nut to 97.5 ft-lb, when it should have been 100 ft-lb ?


But hey, your're right. The next time I have to walk three miles in the p.....g rain to get a mobile signal to report a flat, then walk another three miles back to the van, then wait up to 2 hours for the RAC to reach me - whilst all the while having a perfectly good spare under the back of the van - I'll at least be able to take comfort, as I sit there sopping wet, in the fact that I didn't unnecessarily raise my head above the parapet.

I shall give myself a round of applause - this is, after all, the reason that this nation of ours is so great, by people refusing to unnecessarily raise their heads above the parapet

[Tman]

As I've already stated, I have no facts, and if there are any (which I doubt) I really can't be ar*ed to research them, but that is not the point.
At some point RM will have weighed up the additional costs of only letting trained people change a wheel VS the costs of a potentially serious accident caused by letting untrained staff do technical tasks.
The rest is all just huff puff and bluff on your part; you aren't allowed to change a wheel...end of.

[priority102]

Jetblack, I think what you are referring to regarding changing a wheel and many other things in today's world used to be known as " using common sense". But in today's world there doesn't seem to be a place for "using common sense". It is now called "red tape", which only serves to strangle anyone who comes into contact with it!

[jetblack]

Jetblack, I think what you are referring to regarding changing a wheel and many other things in today's world used to be known as " using common sense". But in today's world there doesn't seem to be a place for "using common sense". It is now called "red tape", which only serves to strangle anyone who comes into contact with it!

Yes, exactly. Its bureaucracy gone mad - thats what really frustrates me. Or to put it another way, as you have, endless "red tape".

And all we are left with is.....

you aren't allowed to change a wheel...end of.

Jesus wept. Its like living in Kafka's "Trial". Or "The Myth of Sysiphus". They used to torture people in Siberia by making them dig huge holes .....only to have them fill them in again the next day.
I suppose, at least, we are getting paid for it


Anyhow - I'll take it up with the dim next time he cares to show his sheepish face.

In the meantime everyone have a good christmas - you deserve it.

[Tman]

You need to develop some sense of perspective. Being told that you can no longer change a flat tyre yourself is hardly "Kafka-esque" or worthy of such ridiculous parallels. How are you going to react when something even slightly important happens? Spontaneously combust?
Still, it gave you the chance to show everyone what an eddicated bloke you are...

[jetblack]

Still, it gave you the chance to show everyone what an eddicated bloke you are...

Anything I know I have taught myself. Am I supposed to be embarassed about "knowing stuff" or something ? What is this - the letters page of The Sun or what ? Shall I keep my words to 2 syllables as well?
Or shall I just grunt ? Would that suit you better ?

Sorry if I've come across as a petty braggart - but sometimes its in the eye of the beholder.

As a matter of interest, do you drive a van ? If so, town or country ?


Anyhow - have a good Christmas T'man. Thanks for your input, such that it was.

[Lounge Lizard]

Changing a wheel is little different from checking the tyre pressure, oil and water and filling the van with fuel.
Either we're mechanically minded or we're not.

[robbertwhitton]

I guess management should man up and enforce it! Some do some don't? Out in the sticks waiting for rac to attend clocks ticking,do I cut off and bring mail back,? So much pressure!! God it's a minefield at times,there's two camps,those who will and those who won't,I can see both sides ,everyone's tired of it all

[Brainache]

We change our wheels, takes about 5 minutes by the side on a country lane when your used to doing it. Send the wheel to the garage on the next wagon and it comes back about a few days later. Posties at the big office arnt allowed apparently but we are `different` - common sense prevails .

[TrueBlueTerrier]

As far as I know in all the Armed Forces part of the training when you become a driver for the Unit, by whatever means, you are trained in minor repairs including changing tyres. Mind you every vehicle has a proper tool kit and there is an MT yard of every base. I am amazed that a simple 30 minute training procedure and competence check is not included in the changeover, it would save loads and RMs arses are covered if someone cocks up. As long as the change is reported than a torque check can be performed at the next available opportunity.