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future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

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TrueBlueTerrier
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

dingo wrote: I think the key is we have to oppose the introduction of the new large letter automation systems which removes all flats and smaller parcels from being manually done ! Equally that will stop the attack of start times ! However we cannot also turn away work from the bigger companies who want to have items to be put in the mail centres at 3 in the morning when most mail centres do not have any thing in after 7 in the evening with a national network it will not get the same day with the current delivery window !
If thats the national strategy for the Union as a whole then I am afaid us in deliveries are in for a hard time, and not just in work. We will be attacked by the right wing press as 21st Century Luddites and if the Conservatives are in charge they will bring their political muscle in. I am afraid stopping automation may well be a good tactic in the short term, it's not a winnable one in the long term.

There is no point in the Union defending jobs that are impossible and dehumanising, they need to address the present workload issues immediately before any dialogue on a new scheme which is only going to make the deliveries longer and the workload more intensive. If the CWU don't then I can't see how it will be relevant to ordinary workers going forward.

It might sound dramatic, but for once I really do think how they handle this will be a defining moment in the history of the Union and RM.
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halfull
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by halfull »

dingo wrote:Look what I said I am opposed to their Delivery Strategy.

However the model they are looking would have delivery methods ! It would no longer be paired vans but one person per van. Lots less delivery offices with no frames in DOs as all work will come in pre walk sequence apart from parcels.

Even with a Shorter working week how will you protect jobs if you do not a longer delivery ? Think about it minus meal relief most Full OPGs works around 35 hours depending on your attendance pattern !

With hardly any indoor work apart from loading your van , collecting reg etc how will you split your hours up if you do just a 4 hour delivery ?

I think the key is we have to oppose the introduction of the new large letter automation systems which removes all flats and smaller parcels from being manually done ! Equally that will stop the attack of start times ! However we cannot also turn away work from the bigger companies who want to have items to be put in the mail centres at 3 in the morning when most mail centres do not have any thing in after 7 in the evening with a national network it will not get the same day with the current delivery window !

Remember the strategy is over 5 years , rural deliveries will be different as will offices to remote from where the large letter machines will be put !

The immediate challenge is that Royal Mail could as from January switch to one wave of traffic in over 50% of offices in the UK so this would mean your office will have only parcels and flats in your office before 0900 which means all your sequencing will not be there for you to throw up ! This will obviously be game changing ahead of next years business plan and indeed ahead of the pay negotiations ! We can all say what we don't want but what do we want is much harder !
in the office bench merging is being trialed its not working by a long way! the last i heard it hadn't even been successfully implemented on 1 section in the trial office!
Lets scare the members into thinking their world is about to end so the crap deal we get them doesnt seem so bad! Sound familiar anyone?? :hmmmm
i can remember a few years back when we were told sequencing machines would wipe out ips!!! Guess what? we are on the ips longer now than ever!!!!
I can also remember the cwu agreeing to lwt & that we could walk as fast with those as carrying pouches!! Guess what? nobody uses the lwt's as they keep you out until teatime & wreck you shoulder & lower back!
I can also remember the cwu agreeing to planners planning 3:30-4 hour deliveries! Guess what? the deliveries take upwards of 5 hours!!!
Can anyone see a trend of the cwu agreeing to things that turn out awful for us the posties? Maybe if they listened to us for once,came into delivery offices too see whats going on they would realize the job is not done in an office negotiating over coffee its done in the real world with real world problems not an ideal world what all these horrid ideas are planned on!
Last edited by halfull on 27 Nov 2015, 19:03, edited 3 times in total.
k979aaa
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by k979aaa »

How can we stop RM introducing large automated flat sorting? 1 refusing to operate will not work someone will do it. 2 smash the bloody things up on sight like the luddites did won't work and you would be sacked. 3 get the CWU to politely ask RM not to do so don't think they will listen. 4 STRIKE well it did not stop the last deal being a bad deal did it. And still will not this time it is a combination of ideas which will form a good deal for us all but remember the trades union bill may well kill all this if we do not act now!
dvbuk55
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by dvbuk55 »

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:It might sound dramatic, but for once I really do think how they handle this will be a defining moment in the history of the Union and RM.
I'm afraid the defining moment for the CWU has been and gone TBT. I believe there is a common phrase about being a footnote in history and that surely defines the present state of the CWU.
Martin Walsh
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by Martin Walsh »

TBT It will be the defining moment you question one part my suggestion but your sounds like we keep the current span and sacrifice the majority of full time jobs I don't think that would be acceptable either and not a policy I would support
daveyeff
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by daveyeff »

dingo wrote:TBT It will be the defining moment you question one part my suggestion but your sounds like we keep the current span and sacrifice the majority of full time jobs I don't think that would be acceptable either and not a policy I would support
how will losing up to 25000 jobs if the spans are increased be better?? FIGHT THEM FFS.,,,,its unworkable, undo-able, and a health and safety risk. can the union survive with all those redundant posties not paying subs any longer?? you lot will also be out of a job!!
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by Martin Walsh »

Daveff I agree ! I up for the row and the Division will produce as we have always done , others also have to step up to the plate ! This is a massive issue which few members know about and that has to change ! There will be changes but we have to ensure that the changes protect jobs and conditions and are actually releastic and acceptable !
TrueBlueTerrier
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

dingo wrote:TBT It will be the defining moment you question one part my suggestion but your sounds like we keep the current span and sacrifice the majority of full time jobs I don't think that would be acceptable either and not a policy I would support

The current span is too much for some already and we need to reduce the working week. I come to work to live, I don't live to work. There has to be a work life balance and I am afraid however you dress it up 7 hour deliveries WILL completely tip the balance the wrong way.

In essence I think a policy of defending the majority of full time jobs at all costs is the wrong policy, and has anyone asked the membership (not the reps at conference) if its the right decision. On such an important matter, and because of the changes in work practices since the policy was adopted, I think the membership need to be asked if they support the policy, and they need to be asked directly, not via reps, committees and conferences.
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daveyeff
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by daveyeff »

the changes THEY are proposing wont protect jobs. it will devastate the industry AND the union.
halfull
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by halfull »

dingo wrote:Daveff I agree ! I up for the row and the Division will produce as we have always done , others also have to step up to the plate ! This is a massive issue which few members know about and that has to change ! There will be changes but we have to ensure that the changes protect jobs and conditions and are actually releastic and acceptable !
few members know about it? Whos fault is that? Where have our letters from the cwu top dogs been to let us know?
Unbelievable!
dvbuk55
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by dvbuk55 »

It's time the membership woke up to the fact that the CWU is there to protect the CWU not the membership. The full time jobs they keep harping on about protecting is theirs and not yours. Perhaps dingo could enlighten the forum on what the current ratio is.
halfull
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by halfull »

dingo wrote:TBT It will be the defining moment you question one part my suggestion but your sounds like we keep the current span and sacrifice the majority of full time jobs I don't think that would be acceptable either and not a policy I would support
not a policy you would support? if you support 6 hour plus deliveries then maybe all div reps could pop down to your local do, & do one of these 6 hour deliveries for a month & see how you feel!
Plus, the cwu are NOT protecting fulltime jobs anyway! Every fulltimer that leaves is replaced by 20 hour partimers!!!! And when you put in the disagreement over the tm1 & headcount not being right all we get from area reps is - this is how it is all across the business now, royal mail wont make anyone fulltime!!
How the hell are the cwu protecting fulltime jobs? They are letting them go every week through evr,vr, ill health, sackings & the list goes on,but they are never replaced!
halfull
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by halfull »

dvbuk55 wrote:It's time the membership woke up to the fact that the CWU is there to protect the CWU not the membership. The full time jobs they keep harping on about protecting is theirs and not yours. Perhaps dingo could enlighten the forum on what the current ratio is.
totally correct.
cyrus
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by cyrus »

We have folk going on the sick with a 4 and hour walk as it is the now.Most folk in our DO don't want a 6 hour duty.it isn't physically possible.if that means mass buy down's or pay off's...then so be it.
Martin Walsh
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Re: future of deliveries. email to bob gibson

Post by Martin Walsh »

TBT who is talking about 7 hours spans acceptable ? No one I know !

No I know supports RM strategy fact !

But the worst thing we can do is say well keep a span which does away with thousands of part times jobs over 28 hours and tens of thousands of well paid full time jobs !

As to get the members involved well I am up for that and a consultation. Exercise needs to take place laying out the facts !

The choice your painting is either have a full time job with a longer span or a job with a shorter span but less wages is not a strategy to unite the members .

Let's be clear the biggest reduction we have ever had off the working week is a hour and half that won't save jobs !