Overtime Question

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I emailed the cwu local rep, so tht is in writing. Ive nt put it in writing to the DOM because he's already told me theres no point. But i thought the best way to go about sorting out a review would be by going to the union first, which is what i have done.

Ok from that you have not officially asked for it to be reviewed, best thing is to put it in writing and send it as special delivery to your Dom, that gives you proof you have done it. Give him two weeks to review it, if he doesn't write again giving him another two weeks if he fails to do it again then lodge a fomal grievance over it.

Also, if i did put it in writing to the DOM, what if this rubbed him up the wrong way & he started making sure i was only working the 25 hours a week my contract says i should?? I'd then be screwed! He could give the extra hours i work to another 25 hour part timer whos not bothered about trying to get an improved/fair contract. I feel like i cant win!!

Actually now here's the down side, yeah it may rub him up the wrong way but that won't matter in the slightest, if the review throws up extra hours they should first be offered to the most senior part time member of staff and then down the line

[motherhubbard]

Is over time voluntary? Seriously asking that? Yes it is, there is no legal means to make it compulsory within rm

Yes I am seriously asking it because as the business model is based on model week staffing and flexing up there is an expectation that overtime will be offered and overtime will be worked, otherwise the business model fails.
Indeed a unit that decided to withdraw any willingness to work overtime could be construed as taking part in unofficial industrial action.
So while on an individual basis overtime remains voluntary, on a collective basis it isn't and the start of this thread was about how we allocate that overtime.

So for example, next week a unit is expected to be well above model traffic and it shows a predicted shortfall of 16 hours/day in the indoor operation.
How should those 16 hours be covered?
Option A is to bring in 8 full time staff for 2 hours each before their official start time to advance the IPS.
Option B is to bring in 8 part time staff for 2 hours each to prep the duty and consequently free up those full timers to go on the IPS instead of double prepping.

My view is that morally the hours should be offered as in option B. That is what I would expect my trade union to be arguing for.
I don't agree that it is discrimination. Option A might be but option B isn't.
The link you posted talks simply about the rights of part time workers. It doesn't say that a full timer has the right to be considered for overtime along with a part time colleague.

If no work or not enough work arrives in the unit early enough then option A isn't an option anyway.
Would it still be discrimination to offer all the overtime as in Option B?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Is over time voluntary? Seriously asking that? Yes it is, there is no legal means to make it compulsory within rm

Yes I am seriously asking it because as the business model is based on model week staffing and flexing up there is an expectation that overtime will be offered and overtime will be worked, otherwise the business model fails.
Indeed a unit that decided to withdraw any willingness to work overtime could be construed as taking part in unofficial industrial action.
So while on an individual basis

overtime remains voluntary, on a collective basis it isn't and the start of this thread was about how we allocate that overtime.

So for example, next week a unit is expected to be well above model traffic and it shows a predicted shortfall of 16 hours/day in the indoor operation.
How should those 16 hours be covered?
Option A is to bring in 8 full time staff for 2 hours each before their official start time to advance the IPS.
Option B is to bring in 8 part time staff for 2 hours each to prep the duty and consequently free up those full timers to go on the IPS instead of double prepping.

My view is that morally the hours should be offered as in option B. That is what I would expect my trade union to be arguing for.
I don't agree that it is discrimination. Option A might be but option B isn't.
The link you posted talks simply about the rights of part time workers. It doesn't say that a full timer has the right to be considered for overtime along with a part time colleague.

If no work or not enough work arrives in the unit early enough then option A isn't an option anyway.
Would it still be discrimination to offer all the overtime as in Option B?

you are not understanding the part of the website I have quoted, yes that page is about rights of part time workers, I am not talking about part time worker rights, I am talking about age discrimination, the section I posted from the wesite talks about indirect sex discrimination also happening and not just part time worker rights, tge rest of the page is about part time workers rights just not that bit that i have quoted and that sex discrimination translates directly to age discrimination in the way you want to allocate overtime

Also stating collectively overtime is not voluntary is also incorrect you state that collectively refusing it could be unofficial industrial action, yes that is partially correct if done without thinking it through but simply following the ir rules then collectively the whole unit could refuse to work OT and then it wouldn't be unofficial and would be again voluntarily refusing to work it. Also no where does it says it's the companies business model to flex up, the option to plan to flex up was taken by the members in the each office that is planned that way

[bogstandard]

and as has been said before ot is voluntary.

A very typically male style of argument. I've said it before and I will say it again therefore it must now be true.

If you are on a 25 hour contract and you have the rent /mortgage to pay and 2 kids to feed then ot is not voluntary, it is a necessity.
Ask the part timers in your office if they do overtime to indulge in a wasteful extravagant lifestyle or if they do it simply to make ends meet.

And if we gave them that little advantage, as I have outlined, it would also give the reps at local, Area and Divisional level a little bit more ammunition when the contracts are reviewed.
We could actually improve their lives - and isn't that the trade union way?
But of course a better contract for a part timer might mean less overtime for a full timer and we couldn't have that now could we?

I will just go back to the kitchen now and leave all the important decisions to you men.

Blue,applies to all
Red , treating more favourably.
Why not go to court then, you're on to a winner. And use the unions solicitors and once you've won sue RM for all your money back

[bogstandard]

https://www.gov.uk/part-time-worker-rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If a part-time worker’s been treated less favourably
Part-time workers should first discuss this with their employer or trade union representative.

They have the right to get a written statement of reasons for the treatment from their employer. The request should be in writing and the employer must write back within 21 days.

If the worker isn’t satisfied that the reason given was objectively justified, they may be able to take a case to an employment tribunal.

there you go its all there for you. You are being treated less favourably you may be able to to take a case to an ET.
Please keep us informed how you get on.

[motherhubbard]

you are not understanding the part of the website I have quoted,

But I can spot a condescending w****r when I see one.

So here is my recipe for blueberry muffins:
Ingredients
Makes: 12 muffins
110g butter
250g plain flour
250g caster sugar
2 eggs
125ml milk
2 teaspoons baking powder
1/2 teaspoon salt
225g fresh blueberries

Method
Prep:15min › Cook:25min › Ready in:40min
1.Preheat oven to 180 C / Gas 4. Grease and flour a muffin tin or line with paper cases. Sieve flour, baking powder and salt together and set aside.
2.Cream butter and sugar until light and fluffy. Add eggs and beat well. Add milk and flour mixture. Beat until combined. Stir in blueberries.
3.Fill muffin tin 2/3 full. Bake at 180 C / Gas 4 for 25 to 30 minutes.

And for the record I am full time.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

you are not understanding the part of the website I have quoted,

But I can spot a condescending w****r when I see one.

So here is my recipe for blueberry muffins:
Ingredients
Makes: 12 muffins
110g butter
250g plain flour
250g caster sugar
2 eggs
125ml milk
2 teaspoons baking powder
1/2 teaspoon salt
225g fresh blueberries

Method
Prep:15min › Cook:25min › Ready in:40min
1.Preheat oven to 180 C / Gas 4. Grease and flour a muffin tin or line with paper cases. Sieve flour, baking powder and salt together and set aside.
2.Cream butter and sugar until light and fluffy. Add eggs and beat well. Add milk and flour mixture. Beat until combined. Stir in blueberries.
3.Fill muffin tin 2/3 full. Bake at 180 C / Gas 4 for 25 to 30 minutes.

And for the record I am full time.

Resorting to name calling shows just how immature you must be in my opinion, i suggest you grow up and understand that this is a discussion forum wher everone is entitled to their opinion whether it be right or wrong, resorting to name calling is against the rules and very disrespectful

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Now its getting silly. Do I have to lock every thread where people disagree and can't stop posting just in case it gets personal. The argument is exhausted so please move on.

Also a reminder no abuse, at all of members, it weakens your position if you have to resort to personal abuse. It also wouldn't hurt if people stopped taking others opinions so personally.