the job in delivery is ruined.

[rambo1]

I know pat had one but what have cats got to do with anything?

[steve1873]

My guess is the problems listed by the OP are shared across all DO's. My own experience as a part timer (27.5hr) and walking into my DO to find most of the duties already half way tying down (or further). In busier periods, like now, it is absolutely impossible to complete my run in 4.15hrs by starting bang on the start time. My boss knows this and turns a blind eye to an earlier start time (20mins at most, usually 15). Sick of hearing people moan about PT's starting before their official time - only reason it is done is so we can finish ON time. Not our fault that we are stuck on a run with a totally unrealistic schedule to stick to.
Our lovely amazon friends have made it even harder already with their cut price tat and the oversize yorks have been overflowing relentlessly for the past fortnight, and this is before the black friday/xmas rush. Doesn't make it any easier when there is not a full timer on my run. Only blessing is that the guys in my depot are hard grafters and do their best to have all mail/flats/packets up in the frames for us coming in.
Yes, we have had the discussions at WTL. Yes, management know about it. Yes, the planners have had a look (and done absolutely fa). No union rep at present, and I am not in the CWU anyway.
I was also out on loan for 8 months to another DO in the region where it was horrendously worse. In there, the rule was (supposed) to be no tying down until ALL packets were up on the frames. NOBODY stuck to this. Coupled with the fact that the part time contracts in there were 29hrs, this meant me having to do an extra 18mins sequencing each day unpaid. Lies and fob offs from management didn't help. Full timers were up in arms as soon as they spotted anybody even a few minutes early! Ironically, the runs there were soooooo easy; over summer I was back home for before 1.30 most days. Totally unfair when the runs there are signed off as 4.15hrs. Even the frames are half the size compared t ours. I was scunnered with it, felt like I was cheating by not doing a full shift while my mates in my main DO were out busting their guts to finish time (and over). Point blank refusing to go back there until that place gets sorted.

Not posting the above with a view to getting it sorted, just throwing it out there to see if any other people have experienced similar.

You can finish on time if you choose. Don't try to use your own individual or collective weakness as an excuse for coming in early and giving the company free labour and a false impression of the required resourcing.

[steve1873]

so how are u not working for nothing if u start 15 to 20 mins early every day

Already explained that. That aint my view. See it as you will. I'm past caring about explaining myself to pussies who just want to cry about why they have "rights" instead of focussing on the work at hand. Never been amongst a bigger bunch of little cry babies who turn on their colleagues instead of seeing that the problems are actually caused by things much bigger and out of their control.
Pathetic.

You have a cheek referring to anyone as pathetic with your attitude towards your colleagues. Why don't they have a right to go home at the end of their contracted shift?

[dave0876]

Sarcastic is just a f**k in tool I cut off I don't care how much I have left it can be 5mins I have kids to pick up from school and have no time to go over not that I need an excuse your finish time is just that and everyone is entitled to finish at that time without any excuses and it's little fuvkin dives like u that ruin the job.

[taurus88]

The job in delivery has been ruined over years, by the people who work in delivery. How can we sympathise with those who would shoot themselves in the feet, repeatedly, until they are thoroughly maimed? I have consistently done my job properly and encountered very few problems. Admittedly, I stop out and book over-time nowadays, which is much less of a problem for management than if I was to cut off, but it's not as if the 3 hours or so extended delivery I manage on a weekly basis is convenient for them, either. Personally, I enjoy my job doing it this way. I don't feel under any great pressure. Stopping out till 3pm occasionally might not be my idea of fun, but it's not as if I'm doing a lot else with that extra hour of delivery. There are a few in our office who do the job this way, and it causes no massive problems, no drama. I don't understand why guys come in early when, if they collectively did the job properly, they could squeeze an extra few hours a week into their pay packets. And that's an extra few hours, each. That would probably add up to another part-time duty, even in smaller delivery offices.

I guess it's true. People are stupid.

[Dorset Plodder]

True Taurus, You can't Train Stupid....it has to come naturally! My office is full of people who work for nothing. I won't even go into their reasons, you've heard them all before.

Nowadays some of them are waking up after years of doing it and actually booking meal reliefs if not taking them. All I ask of them is to record the time they actually spend doing the job. I explain it makes all the Reserves look idiots because they're trying to do the job properly and constantly being told, " The Regular Duty holder doesn't take that long they're normally finished and hour earlier than you"!

It also makes it hard to work the way you suggest. I agree and will not work for Free, I book overtime if I go over instead of cutting off. However there is the inevitable arguments with the DOM. Again you've heard them all before...very boring, just pay me arsehole!

Had a Newbie on Saturday telling the DOM they were just going to throw off next weeks Households before they went home. I was standing nearby and said, "Don't throw them off in your own time, make sure you claim and get paid for them"! The DOM said, "Don't listen to him"! Needles to say a few more words were said. This particular DOM is a fairly decent lad but the Newbies are never trained to do the job properly in the first place, and I believe this is half the problem.

[bustedflush]

True Taurus, You can't Train Stupid....it has to come naturally! My office is full of people who work for nothing. I won't even go into their reasons, you've heard them all before.

Nowadays some of them are waking up after years of doing it and actually booking meal reliefs if not taking them. All I ask of them is to record the time they actually spend doing the job. I explain it makes all the Reserves look idiots because they're trying to do the job properly and constantly being told, " The Regular Duty holder doesn't take that long they're normally finished and hour earlier than you"!

It also makes it hard to work the way you suggest. I agree and will not work for Free, I book overtime if I go over instead of cutting off. However there is the inevitable arguments with the DOM. Again you've heard them all before...very boring, just pay me arsehole!

Had a Newbie on Saturday telling the DOM they were just going to throw off next weeks Households before
they went home. I was standing nearby and said, "Don't throw them off in your own time, make sure you claim and get paid for them"! The DOM said, "Don't listen to him"! Needles to say a few more words were said. This particular DOM is a fairly decent lad but the Newbies are never trained to do the job properly in the first place, and I believe this is half the problem.

Nothing wrong with that if you can do it within your time. I have finished early Sat many a time and thrown them off before my due-off time.

[datasaint]

Nothing wrong with that if you can do it within your time. I have finished early Sat many a time and thrown them off before my due-off time.

You've skewed your workload for Monday, plus it sets a trend whereby others see you do it and possibly do it in their own time even though you might not be.

[BernardBresslaw]

Nothing wrong with that if you can do it within your time. I have finished early Sat many a time and thrown them off before my due-off time.

You've skewed your workload for Monday, plus it sets a trend whereby others see you do it and possibly do it in their own time even though you might not be.

I'm pretty sure a manager is within his/her rights to request you to do so, if you get back early and are within your paid hours...not that there are many managers in the office on a Saturday afternoon mind you.

[taurus88]

True Taurus, You can't Train Stupid....it has to come naturally! My office is full of people who work for nothing. I won't even go into their reasons, you've heard them all before.

Nowadays some of them are waking up after years of doing it and actually booking meal reliefs if not taking them. All I ask of them is to record the time they actually spend doing the job. I explain it makes all the Reserves look idiots because they're trying to do the job properly and constantly being told, " The Regular Duty holder doesn't take that long they're normally finished and hour earlier than you"!

It also makes it hard to work the way you suggest. I agree and will not work for Free, I book overtime if I go over instead of cutting off. However there is the inevitable arguments with the DOM. Again you've heard them all before...very boring, just pay me arsehole!

Had a Newbie on Saturday telling the DOM they were just going to throw off next weeks Households before they went home. I was standing nearby and said, "Don't throw them off in your own time, make sure you claim and get paid for them"! The DOM said, "Don't listen to him"! Needles to say a few more words were said. This particular DOM is a fairly decent lad but the Newbies are never trained to do the job properly in the first place, and I believe this is half the problem.

In fairness to these new guys, there's a veil of secrecy that managers maintain to get that extra 10% from the work-force. I remember when I started, I was the same - naive, hopeless, I came in at the time the other guys did because I thought it was the start time, I finished when I finished because I thought that was how the job worked. Although there was still an element of swings and roundabouts then, with Tuesdays and Saturdays giving you back any time you lost on Wednesdays and Thursdays. I went through all the rigmarole with management when we had our Methods Revision, and I learned the hard way to stand my ground, through arguments, etc. I am not saying it is easy, but there were a few of us who stood for what we believed was right and we got what we wanted and needed, respect, and the freedom to do our jobs properly. I wouldn't tell anybody that it is easy to stand up to management, it's probably easier to cave-in sometimes and give up half an hour a day for the sake of a comfy life. But in the long run, the benefits of standing your ground far out-weigh the benefits of giving up your labour for free. I get to stay in bed an hour longer than some of my part-time colleagues, for instance. Maybe that means I'm out on the streets till an hour later, too. I don't mind.

[Burghboy]

Same in our gaff, folks come in early work thru breaks ect, they have now said that in our revision we will be losing 2 full time walks...

Union does nothing but what they should do is expel these guys who constantly work for free

[BarnsleyLackey]

Same in our gaff, folks come in early work thru breaks ect, they have now said that in our revision we will be losing 2 full time walks...

Union does nothing but what they should do is expel these guys who constantly work for free

Our union guys are constantly telling us to do the job properly - Take breaks, use the trolley, start on time. But that's all they can do.
Crapping on the union for people not following the procedure wore thin ages ago.

Just work properly. When management get clever, tell em to get their walking shoes on.

[korky]

When management get clever, tell em to get their walking shoes on.

? ours constantly have their walking shoes on but only after they've prepped some duties too hence why no p/t'er can be made full time

[BarnsleyLackey]

When management get clever, tell em to get their walking shoes on.

? ours constantly have their walking shoes on but only after they've prepped some duties too hence why no p/t'er can be made full time

Yes, but if everyone does the same, every day. Changes will have to be made. Though I doubt it will be giving out more F/T contracts, it should make for a more manageable working day, whatever you do.

[bustedflush]

Nothing wrong with that if you can do it within your time. I have finished early Sat many a time and thrown them off before my due-off time.

You've skewed your workload for Monday, plus it sets a trend whereby others see you do it and possibly do it in their own time even though you might not be.

I'm pretty sure a manager is within his/her rights to request you to do so, if you get back early and are within your paid hours...not that there are many managers in the office on a Saturday afternoon mind you.

They never have requested, they were prepared to let us go home (if we actually see any on a Sat) but many do it off our own back. We have a 'runner' who usually finishes so early on a Sat (10:45-11:15 ish) he can't come back to the office that early so he parks up and preps them all in the back of the van if there are 2 or more!!

The good thing is that Monday is usually heavy on mail with 80%+ calls and light on packets so having them all prepped means you get rid of 80% straight away. Especially so when you have those effing charity envelopes with pens and cup mats in that block the slots up when the junk magazines and small packets get heavier in the week.