the job in delivery is ruined.

[bustedflush]

so how are u not working for nothing if u start 15 to 20 mins early every day

Already explained that. That aint my view. See it as you will. I'm past caring about explaining myself to pussies who just want to cry about why they have "rights" instead of focussing on the work at hand. Never been amongst a bigger bunch of little cry babies who turn on their colleagues instead of seeing that the problems are actually caused by things much bigger and out of their control.
Pathetic.

I can understand the pressures you mention here. If you are paired up and not solo, or a reserve, you have to consider the senior partner/duty holder you work with. I know several who come in early 15-30 minutes but invariably finish early by at least that amount due to the pressures mentioned. May be child school pick-up, partner's children at school etc. but all they're doing is effectively 'flexitime' not free work.
People often forget you aren't going to throw a job off as quick as the duty holder so feel the need for extra time so as to get your partner out as quick as they are used to.
Obviously the disadvantage is that should you finish at the official time you have effectively 'gone over' but won't get paid for the early bit. That's why the managers let people do it.

You are right in the sense that the excessive workload is caused by problems outside our control, even the DIM's control. They are battered or incentivized into minimizing contract hours, avoiding paying excessive OT. You are also right in that people like to get the job done and will rather do that than quibble over ten minutes here or there.

I can also see the other side of the coin. People too are correct when they criticize early starters as this massages the true situation. It's all or nothing. Either the office agrees to adhere strictly to the times and either cut-off or extend on OT or they don't; unfortunately like most offices ours is a free-for-all.

Posties, especially reserves, are victims of circumstance i.e. the combination of which round they are put on, the attitude of the partner/duty-holder and the daily workload. Personally I find it easier to go with the flow. If put with a 'runner' I come in early and finish even earlier. If with a slower partner/longer round that week I work the rules and either do my time or agree OT beforehand. Obviously the managers don't like it as one week I'm early each day and next I'm arguing working my time and I have to point out that 'last week is irrelevant now'. That's the life of the reserve I'm afraid.

I wish sometimes the DIMs would ENFORCE us all to work by the book, because sure as hell the union in the office won't or can't.

[SpacePhoenix]

I can understand the pressures you mention here. If you are paired up and not solo, or a reserve, you have to consider the senior partner/duty holder you work with. I know several who come in early 15-30 minutes but invariably finish early by at least that amount due to the pressures mentioned. May be child school pick-up, partner's children at school etc. but all they're doing is effectively 'flexitime' not free work.

If they're coming in before their offical start time then they are working for free as between when they come in and their offical start time they're not paid. DOMs are quite within their right, unless someone has family freindly to either send someone back out with lapsing or have them do some work indoors to take them upto their offical finish time. By finishing 30 mins before their offical finish time, that'll be 30mins that the DOM will look to take away when higher up tell them they have to save x hours.

[Jpro747]

Why do you work for nothing? You have a start time and a finish if you can't complete claim or cut off it's not hard never work for nothing
I do a lot of overtime but never ever work for nothing

You have automatically assumed that if I go over my time I don't claim. Of course I bloody do. Don't bother with trying to tell me what I "should" do.
If I decide to put in a little bit extra in the morning to help me finish on my time on heavy load days then that is exactly what I will do. I have done more OT this year than most of the entire rural DO combined that I was given out on loan to.
The real cold hard fact is that deep down we all know NOTHING changes. We jump up and down and shout but we know it falls on deaf ears.
I've accepted that if I don't do that little bit extra to help my duty then I will be over time most days. Not by a lot, but enough to add up.
When I was in the RAF going above and beyone was commonplace, and accepted, albeit for entirely different reasons.
We did it to get the fkin JOB DONE. Simple as.
It's not about working for nothing, it is doing what it takes to make sure that I DONT need to work for nothing.

Being out with people who refuse to go over their time (even by 10 mins) don't realise how selfish they are.
They wonder how their colleague(s) are so cheesed off at them? Here's why. It's beacause they have to drive you back to the depot. Then they have to come back out and finish off the bag that they were in the middle of because of YOUR "right" to cut off. Then they have to take up the fight with DOM to get OT because of the little hissy fit and dummy out the pram showcase from their colleague that was absolutely no fault of their own.

One thing you mention though - "Its not hard". Spot on. This job is not a science or art form, in fact it is the most overpaid job for an unskilled workforce. Can't for the life of me work out why there are so many primadonnas on the same pay grade who think they can tell others what is best for them, because they have "rights".

Wow. You need to do a bit of learning, and luckily you've come to the right place! First of all NO ONE is selfish for wanting to finish on time. It is YOUR RIGHT to refuse to work overtime, it is not compulsory and if it was we'd all be even further up sh*t creek! If your partner is cutting off and you don't want to deliver the excess, then why don't you cut off as well? Or are your balls not big enough?

Secondly, you are working for free if you come in early, even for 10 minutes every day, it all adds up and it management see it as we're quite happy to work for free! Not taking your break, and working faster than what is required are also examples of giving RM more than you need to. This company reported profits of £740m in May this year. Now ask yourself how much of that did you, or anyone else, generate for them by coming in early? And how much of it went into your pocket?

Now I suggest you drop the military attitude, you aren't a hero, just an average joe with a normal job, delivering letters is not a matter of life or death. All you have to do is work as directed by the company within the hours stated in your contract.

[ThatsNotPlumb]

No the mail is coming in at the same time it allways has done.most of us are busy until mail arrives its just the idiots who come in early,have you read my post,start and finish times keep going back year on year,

So if the majority of you are all busy & the only people that having nothing to do for 20 odd minutes are the ones coming in early, how has your rep not explained this to your management? Because if he had & they are still going ahead with the change of start/finish times for everyone, then it would imply that the change has nothing, or at least not as much, to do with the few coming in early as you proclaim & more to do with the fact they think you all have too much time to spare.

i take it you have an easy duty or you don't have children at school,or you do not have a life outside of work,this company is getting driven into the ground ,I like many other do NOT want a 9-5 job,customers want there mail at a reasonable time

What sort of duty I'm on makes no difference, I've a contract to work a certain number of hours & I'm under no obligation to work anything beyond that unless I choose to. If they changed my start/finish times to a point in which the job no longer suited my life or any outside work commitments I had, then it would be quite simple I'd no longer be able to work here. It's not like I wouldn't need a job or don't need the money, but if the job no longer suits, it no longer suits.

Your start time has only changed by 30 minutes from whatever it was previously, I mean that is next to nothing if we're being honest, any company not just Royal Mail can change your start/finish time at the drop of a dime without even asking your opinion for such a small amount.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Why do you work for nothing? You have a start time and a finish if you can't complete claim or cut off it's not hard never work for nothing
I do a lot of overtime but never ever work for nothing

You have automatically assumed that if I go over my time I don't claim.

Actually its you who did the assuming. You assumed he meant cutting off, but he didn't he meant early starting and working for no pay, which you state quite clearly in your post.

this meant me having to do an extra 18mins sequencing each day unpaid.

When I was in the RAF going above and beyond was commonplace, and accepted, albeit for entirely different reasons.

Yes because WE were paid for it, if you remember we were paid 24 hours a day 365 days a year, there was no finish time, and when you did work above and beyond it was recognised and an early finish, or an odd day off was no problem at all. For the record I was a PANDA in the RAF for 16 years, so please don't use your time in the mob selectively there are too many old soldiers, tars and guins on here that will call you out.

Not posting the above with a view to getting it sorted, just throwing it out there to see if any other people have experienced similar.

and people dared to give you their opinion

Then they have to take up the fight with DOM to get OT because of the little hissy fit and dummy out the pram showcase from their colleague that was absolutely no fault of their own.

So you fighting with the DOM to get what is yours is entirely the fault of someone exercising their rights to finish on time. Hey heres a secret, if they are fighting paying you its the MANAGER'S fault, not your colleagues.

cry babies who turn on their colleagues

explaining myself to pussies

Were you trying to be ironic, I doubt it.

[halfull]

rep should have put a stage one disagreement in & told dom he/she wants to see what people are waiting, how they do the job, do they come in early? do they take a break?
Tried this in our office,it went nowhere.

[Darren Bent]

If Royal Mail move everything back an hour it would help everyone as football fans get more chance to go to football, parents to pick up kids from school, etc. Not a fan of 7am start :(

[lee trigger]

Dude you really need to get a grip, you do not have to go back out finish off that's your choice. Some people have a lfe away from work I suggest you get one as well

[Wednesday]

???
If Royal Mail move everything back an hour it would help everyone as football fans get more chance to go to football, parents to pick up kids from school, etc. Not a fan of 7am start :(

If RoyalMail move my finish time on a Saturday any later than the 2o'clock it is now,I won't get to any matches unless I can buy a TARDIS on Ebay!!

[bustedflush]

???
If Royal Mail move everything back an hour it would help everyone as football fans get more chance to go to football, parents to pick up kids from school, etc. Not a fan of 7am start :(

If RoyalMail move my finish time on a Saturday any later than the 2o'clock it is now,I won't get to any matches unless I can buy a TARDIS on Ebay!!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Doctor-Who-Ta ... Swo0JWO6NQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Anonymouse]

oh jeez, imagine being Sarcastixx's partner

Some people take this game too seriously.

[RedBagMan]

aaah the joy of "Divide and Rule" - the Management love it (takes the minds of the foot soldiers off the real problems with this company) ...

[comeracing]

No the mail is coming in at the same time it allways has done.most of us are busy until mail arrives its just the idiots who come in early,have you read my post,start and finish times keep going back year on year,

So if the majority of you are all busy & the only people that having nothing to do for 20 odd minutes are the ones coming in early, how has your rep not explained this to your management? Because if he had & they are still going ahead with the change of start/finish times for everyone, then it would imply that the change has nothing, or at least not as much, to do with the few coming in early as you proclaim & more to do with the fact they think you all have too much time to spare.

i take it you have an easy duty or you don't have children at school,or you do not have a life outside of work,this company is getting driven into the ground ,I like many other do NOT want a 9-5 job,customers want there mail at a reasonable time

What sort of duty I'm on makes no difference, I've a contract to work a certain number of hours & I'm under no obligation to work anything beyond that unless I choose to. If they changed my start/finish times to a point in which the job no longer suited my life or any outside work commitments I had, then it would be quite simple I'd no longer be able to work here. It's not like I wouldn't need a job or don't need the money, but if the job no longer suits, it no longer suits.

Your start time has only changed by 30 minutes from whatever it was previously, I mean that is next to nothing if we're being honest, any company not just Royal Mail can change your start/finish time at the drop of a dime without even asking your opinion for such a small amount.

our rep is to weak and start times are going back 30/45 year on year,will be working 12 noon -8pm before we know it.

[comeracing]

oh jeez, imagine being Sarcastixx's partner

Some people take this game too seriously.

ha ve heard the partner on long term sick

[korky]

was talking to my partner today about this coming in early lark, the pair behind me are on less hours than me, i started 8.30 and they were already tied up?
my partner said they were both in 45 mins early, i did comment on that he'd also said he started 20 mins early, but only to prep d2d
i said to him if you didn't do this we'd not have time to do the lapsed bit but still doesn't see that its working for free, and i get an extra 15/20 minutes walking!

honestly some people are so set in their ways and cannot change no matter what's thrown at them