Overtime Question

[motherhubbard]

If everyone starts the reference period on zero how do you decide on the allocation of overtime for the first week?

[vanman90]

I be leave if a part timer has signed a full time duty and has his hours made up every week the the difference shouldn't be added to the aggregate but that's my opinion .


Other than that any overtime performed counts to aggregate my only advise to a part timer would be wait until a full time duty becomes available .

[vanman90]

If everyone starts the reference period on zero how do you decide on the allocation of overtime for the first week?

Would it be done on seniority ?

[bogstandard]

ot is voluntary and all volunteers are treated equally.
As everybody starts on zero hours for the reference period .

I think this is the point being made in the first post.
Not everybody is being treated equally because some people take home a basic 39 hr week salary and others only 25 hours.
So why not, like with horse races, introduce a "handicap" so some start the reference period at minus whatever to even up the playing field.
Or are the horses being discriminated against?

the point is, ot is voluntary, nobody is forced or required to work beyond their contracted hours.
If anyone was promised 5,10 or 15 hours ot at the interview stage step, forward get your rep involved because you are entitled to it.
you are applying a criteria which is not applicable to all, and appling this would be discriminartory.

If everyone starts the reference period on zero how do you decide on the allocation of overtime for the first week?

the most senior person who has expressed a preference to perform ot and who is not on duty or SA at the time of the ot. Week two and beyond would be the most senior person with the lowest hours etc.

[mightyowler]

What baffles me about being part time is, if I work an extra night shift on top of my contract, I don't receive the night shift allowance for that extra shift.

[motherhubbard]

If everyone starts the reference period on zero how do you decide on the allocation of overtime for the first week?

the most senior person who has expressed a preference to perform ot and who is not on duty or SA at the time of the ot. Week two and beyond would be the most senior person with the lowest hours etc.

And how is that not discrimination?
Why is it the most senior person and not the least senior?

[motherhubbard]

the point is, ot is voluntary.

The point is - if you are on a 39 hour/week contract you can decide to move to a lesser contract. In some cases you can even get paid to do it.
If you are on a 25 hour contract you cannot decide to move to a 39 hour contract.

And while ot is voluntary, feeding the kids and paying the rent isn't.

What sort of a union ensures those with the most get given more, while those struggling to make ends meet have to fight to get anything.
Is the Tory party now in charge of the CWU?

[bogstandard]

if it wasn't for the union there'd be zero hour contracts and not 25 hour contracts.
The union don't employ rm staff, rm employ rm staff

idividuals are aware of exactly what they will recieve financailly at the point of accepting the job and this is voluntary, to remain is voluntary, ot is voluntary.

If the we were to agree your point of view what would stop anyone asking for a 24 hour contract just to go first in the allocation of ot, then 23 and 22 and so on. Then the union would be void as RM's own staff would want a race to the bottom.

[bogstandard]

If everyone starts the reference period on zero how do you decide on the allocation of overtime for the first week?

the most senior person who has expressed a preference to perform ot and who is not on duty or SA at the time of the ot. Week two and beyond would be the most senior person with the lowest hours etc.

And how is that not discrimination?
Why is it the most senior person and not the least senior?

it is not one of the protected charateristics

[bogstandard]

the argument being put forward is that someone on a pt contract has responsibilities and financial needs greater and more worthy than someone on a ft contract. This is because they are on a pt conract when in fact the opposite could quite easily apply.

[midvillain]

Well, seems as tho most people feel that o/t should be shared out equally, so can anyone help me with regards to working out an aggregate system? And suggest a way in which I can keep my conscience quiet?

[motherhubbard]

If the we were to agree your point of view what would stop anyone asking for a 24 hour contract just to go first in the allocation of ot, then 23 and 22 and so on. Then the union would be void as RM's own staff would want a race to the bottom.

Why would anyone want a p/t contract, with all the financial uncertainties and implications that entails, to go first in the allocation of o/t when that advantage would disappear once they had reached the hours of their original f/t contract? That doesn't make any sense.
And you haven't answered the question as to why seniority and not reverse seniority is used for the first 2 weeks.
If the most senior tend to be older and the least senior are younger, then how is that not age discrimination to allow the old people first dibs on the overtime?

[bogstandard]

Well, seems as tho most people feel that o/t should be shared out equally, so can anyone help me with regards to working out an aggregate system? And suggest a way in which I can keep my conscience quiet?

There should be somewhere in your office, a place where you can express your preference to voluntarily work ot. If this place does not exist go to your bookroom (Or union rep , line manager or DOM) and ask where it should be or is or ask how you volunteer for ot.
Overtime is allocated on the low to high aggregate system, this is the person with the lowest ot hours who has volunteerd is allocated the job that attracts the most hours, so long as the work on offer does not overlap with your duty hours. In this instance

[bogstandard]

If the we were to agree your point of view what would stop anyone asking for a 24 hour contract just to go first in the allocation of ot, then 23 and 22 and so on. Then the union would be void as RM's own staff would want a race to the bottom.

Why would anyone want a p/t contract, with all the financial uncertainties and implications that entails, to go first in the allocation of o/t when that advantage would disappear once they had reached the hours of their original f/t contract? That doesn't make any sense.
And you haven't answered the question as to why seniority and not reverse seniority is used for the first 2 weeks.
If the most senior tend to be older and the least senior are younger, then how is that not age discrimination to allow the old people first dibs on the overtime?

Given your previous postings, your opinion is that people on pt contracts should get first dibs on ot, therefore if it is followed through the person on the lowest contracted hours gets first dibs on ot

Not everybody is being treated equally because some people take home a basic 39 hr week salary and others only 25 hours.
So why not, like with horse races, introduce a "handicap" so some start the reference period at minus whatever to even up the playing field.
Or are the horses being discriminated against?

Age discrimination is a protected characteristic and as you yourself have said seionor people tend to be older, acknowledging that there are exceptions therefore seniority cannot be and is not an age discrimination mechanism. I work in an office where no.1 is not the oldest person and the last person in the door is not the youngest, and i'm sure you could go into many workplaces and find a large number of age crossovers where there are individuals who are older than people more senior to them.
The allocation of ot in your workplace could be changed if you want why not request a vote on using you reverse method and let democracy decide, this has never been raised in my office, so i have only (along with others) outlined how it is done at my office. It appears we all use a very similar method.

[midvillain]

Well, seems as tho most people feel that o/t should be shared out equally, so can anyone help me with regards to working out an aggregate system? And suggest a way in which I can keep my conscience quiet?

There should be somewhere in your office, a place where you can express your preference to voluntarily work ot. If this place does not exist go to your bookroom (Or union rep , line manager or DOM) and ask where it should be or is or ask how you volunteer for ot.
Overtime is allocated on the low to high aggregate system, this is the person with the lowest ot hours who has volunteerd is allocated the job that attracts the most hours, so long as the work on offer does not overlap with your duty hours. In this instance

Well, I can only ask management to look into implementing it. I'm fairly sure it's not my job to organise this.