Flexing?

[eggraidonmojo]

I know this has been mentioned before on the forum, but I have got a question about flexing that I *think* has not been asked...

Is flexing completely voluntary? I've been told that unless you have a reason - e.g. doctor appointment, got to pick kids up from school - then you will be expected to flex (and will get the 30 mins back within 5 days)...

The Agenda for Growth agreement isn't completely clear on this. There's no use of the word 'voluntary' - although does "individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes..." imply that it is voluntary?

I've also been told that a local rep can sign a local agreement that makes flexing mandatory. Any truth to this? Can a local agreement override a national one?

Thanks for any help,

Below is from Agenda for Growth:

6.2.3 Point of Clarification on 30 mins Flexibility
Both parties re-affirm their commitment to the 30 minute flexibility arrangements within the Pay
and Modernisation agreement. The following provides clarification of the agreed approach.
Where necessary, for example when traffic volumes are unexpectedly high or resourcing issues
arise, individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30
minutes on a swings and roundabouts basis. Individual circumstances will be taken into account and
total weekly contractual hours will not change. This means that individuals may flex their duty times
by up to 30 minutes on any given day and this will be balanced either way over the next 5 working
days. However this period can be extended by local agreement. A local record will be kept. Any
requirement to change times of attendance or flex will take into account individual’s personal
obligations and responsibilities.

[DiamondSmiles]

It's up to you whether to flex or not. They can ask you to, but in the end the decision rests with you. They cannot demand you do it.

[korky]

It's up to you whether to flex or not. They can ask you to, but in the end the decision rests with you. They cannot demand you do it.

how old is the "agenda"?
what if you are willing to flex but your partner won't or vice versa?
whole thing goes out of the window of 30 minutes flex if its driving back to office then back out again to drop the other off!

[DiamondSmiles]

It's up to you whether to flex or not. They can ask you to, but in the end the decision rests with you. They cannot demand you do it.

how old is the "agenda"?
what if you are willing to flex but your partner won't or vice versa?
whole thing goes out of the window of 30 minutes flex if its driving back to office then back out again to drop the other off!

If this is the case then its pointless for management to ask you to flex. They can go out and deliver it themselves

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

completely voluntary and no your rep cannot sign something that makes it mandatory

[eggraidonmojo]

Thanks for all the replies,

pretty much confirmed what I thought - just management trying it on again!

[Glenno]

I know this has been mentioned before on the forum, but I have got a question about flexing that I *think* has not been asked...

Is flexing completely voluntary? I've been told that unless you have a reason - e.g. doctor appointment, got to pick kids up from school - then you will be expected to flex (and will get the 30 mins back within 5 days)...

The Agenda for Growth agreement isn't completely clear on this. There's no use of the word 'voluntary' - although does "individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes..." imply that it is voluntary?

I've also been told that a local rep can sign a local agreement that makes flexing mandatory. Any truth to this? Can a local agreement override a national one?

Thanks for any help,

Below is from Agenda for Growth:

6.2.3 Point of Clarification on 30 mins Flexibility
Both parties re-affirm their commitment to the 30 minute flexibility arrangements within the Pay
and Modernisation agreement. The following provides clarification of the agreed approach.
Where necessary, for example when traffic volumes are unexpectedly high or resourcing issues
arise, individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30
minutes on a swings and roundabouts basis. Individual circumstances will be taken into account and
total weekly contractual hours will not change. This means that individuals may flex their duty times
by up to 30 minutes on any given day and this will be balanced either way over the next 5 working
days. However this period can be extended by local agreement. A local record will be kept. Any
requirement to change times of attendance or flex will take into account individual’s personal
obligations and responsibilities.

[superdazzy]

As previously stated you only have to flex up the 30 minutes if you want to and its up to you when you get the time back, just say you want it back on the Saturday.

[meercat]

No it is not voluntary.

Everyone says it's voluntary but as you pointed out the Agreement says you will be asked but obligations will be taken into account. So clearly it's not voluntary. But if you have a reason not to be able to do it you must be allowed to refuse. Applicable reasons are not outlined so it doesn't have to be a doctors appointment you could cite ANY reason or 'responsibility', from feeding the Guinea Pigs to getting home on time so your wife can go out to her job.

So in a sense it's 'voluntary' in that you can give any reason to refuse - you can always refuse.

BUT can you say 'No I can't be bothered' - no. If the manager says 'Are you refusing to flex?' and you say 'Yes, I can't be bothered staying out it's raining' you are in breach of the agreement and presumably your contract. 'If you say yes, because I have a commitment' then you are covered. You do not need to explain what the commitment is and are perfectly within your rights to say it's confidential.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

No it is not voluntary.

Everyone says it's voluntary but as you pointed out the Agreement says you will be asked but obligations will be taken into account. So clearly it's not voluntary. But if you have a reason not to be able to do it you must be allowed to refuse. Applicable reasons are not outlined so it doesn't have to be a doctors appointment you could cite ANY reason or 'responsibility', from feeding the Guinea Pigs to getting home on time so your wife can go out to her job.

So in a sense it's 'voluntary' in that you can give any reason to refuse - you can always refuse.

BUT can you say 'No I can't be bothered' - no. If the manager says 'Are you refusing to flex?' and you say 'Yes, I can't be bothered staying out it's raining' you are in breach of the agreement and presumably your contract. 'If you say yes, because I have a commitment' then you are covered. You do not need to explain what the commitment is and are perfectly within your rights to say it's confidential.

flexing is completely voluntary. not giving a reason not to flex is not breach of the agreement. A simple I do not want to is all that is needed nothing else. There was a ltb issued in February of this year which again stated clearly that the 30 minutes flex is entirely voluntary.

[bogstandard]

I know this has been mentioned before on the forum, but I have got a question about flexing that I *think* has not been asked...

Is flexing completely voluntary? I've been told that unless you have a reason - e.g. doctor appointment, got to pick kids up from school - then you will be expected to flex (and will get the 30 mins back within 5 days)...

The Agenda for Growth agreement isn't completely clear on this. There's no use of the word 'voluntary' - although does "individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes..." imply that it is voluntary?

I've also been told that a local rep can sign a local agreement that makes flexing mandatory. Any truth to this? Can a local agreement override a national one?

Thanks for any help,

Below is from Agenda for Growth:

6.2.3 Point of Clarification on 30 mins Flexibility
Both parties re-affirm their commitment to the 30 minute flexibility arrangements within the Pay
and Modernisation agreement. The following provides clarification of the agreed approach.
Where necessary, for example when traffic volumes are unexpectedly high or resourcing issues
arise, individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30
minutes on a swings and roundabouts basis. Individual circumstances will be taken into account and
total weekly contractual hours will not change. This means that individuals may flex their duty times
by up to 30 minutes on any given day and this will be balanced either way over the next 5 working
days. However this period can be extended by local agreement. A local record will be kept. Any
requirement to change times of attendance or flex will take into account individual’s personal
obligations and responsibilities.

put in a request to go 30mins early when that happens...

[meercat]

No it is not voluntary.

Everyone says it's voluntary but as you pointed out the Agreement says you will be asked but obligations will be taken into account. So clearly it's not voluntary. But if you have a reason not to be able to do it you must be allowed to refuse. Applicable reasons are not outlined so it doesn't have to be a doctors appointment you could cite ANY reason or 'responsibility', from feeding the Guinea Pigs to getting home on time so your wife can go out to her job.

So in a sense it's 'voluntary' in that you can give any reason to refuse - you can always refuse.

BUT can you say 'No I can't be bothered' - no. If the manager says 'Are you refusing to flex?' and you say 'Yes, I can't be bothered staying out it's raining' you are in breach of the agreement and presumably your contract. 'If you say yes, because I have a commitment' then you are covered. You do not need to explain what the commitment is and are perfectly within your rights to say it's confidential.

flexing is completely voluntary. not giving a reason not to flex is not breach of the agreement. A simple I do not want to is all that is needed nothing else. There was a ltb issued in February of this year which again stated clearly that the 30 minutes flex is entirely voluntary.

I have to admit you MAY be right as I haven't seen this LTB.

HOWEVER - what is clear is the Agreement. As quoted here it DOES NOT say flexing is VOLUNTARY. Infact it CLEARLY implies that a reason must be given and that will be TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.

This LTB you mention is NOT the Agreement. The Agreement is the Agreement. The CWU can send a LTB that says any number of things but a Tribunal will ask to see the wording of the relevant Agreement and decide if a sacking was fair based upon that.

IF the LTB syas BOTH RM and CWU agree that flexing is voluntary then it can be regarded as an AMENDMENT to the Agreement. Otherwise, the Agreement is the final word on the matter. So where is this LTB?