Jes we can Labour

[motherhubbard]

Leaves me wondering who and what Tman and Bustedflush actually do support?

The Third Reich?

[Tman]

And there it is, Godwin's law, in all it's glory.
Apart from the sad inevitability that Nazism was going to be mentioned somewhere, isn't it also almost too sad that the argument should then become polarised (in some minds) to "if you don't think like me you're clearly some sort of Nazi", which many would think was pretty much the essence of Fascism. The irony...
In the meantime, portraying those who disagree with you as fascist/racist is no longer valid; that particular method of silencing argument was long-since been discarded as meaningless, mainly due to it's over-use by those who could come up with nothing else of any relevance.
Poor old Mother.....you'll need to do better than that. The rest of us have moved on from yes/no arguments..

[bustedflush]

And there it is, Godwin's law, in all it's glory.
Apart from the sad inevitability that Nazism was going to be mentioned somewhere, isn't it also almost too sad that the argument should then become polarised (in some minds) to "if you don't think like me you're clearly some sort of Nazi", which many would think was pretty much the essence of Fascism. The irony...
In the meantime, portraying those who disagree with you as fascist/racist is no longer valid; that particular method of silencing argument was long-since been discarded as meaningless, mainly due to it's over-use by those who could come up with nothing else of any relevance.
Poor old Mother.....you'll need to do better than that. The rest of us have moved on from yes/no arguments..

Couldn't have put it better myself. When the mudslinging starts I find it comforting to know that the 3 steps have been completed by the 'opposition' in any debate:

Misrepresentation of facts, anger that somebody disagrees and of course the nail in the coffin of their argument "You're a Nazi/racist/fascist" or whichever slur is de rigeur at that moment.

This has gone beyond a 'refugee' (economic migrant) crisis to the point of an aggressive invasion in southern countries.

So the bitter irony is that the fools in the EU who are advocates of open borders are now seeing miles of steel fencing and barbed wire appear along borders of countries in the firing line, because of their own actions and words. I could almost laugh. Hysterically.

Funny that Rumania, the poorest state in the region and on a direct route to the middle of Europe has NO crisis. Wake up people, you are being had!

[motherhubbard]

Misrepresentation of facts, anger that somebody disagrees and of course the nail in the coffin of their argument "You're a Nazi/racist/fascist" or whichever slur is de rigeur at that moment.

Wake up people, you are being had!

Where have facts been misrepresented?
Who is angry - apart from you?
And as to calling you a racist.....if you are one, (and you clearly are) why is one not allowed to point it out?

If anyone is being had it is the people who are taken in by the vile rhetoric that emanates from your keyboard.

Anyone to quote the lentil eating, cardigan wearing, BBC loved peacemonger:
There is enough for everyone's need not everyone's greed.

[bustedflush]

Misrepresentation of facts, anger that somebody disagrees and of course the nail in the coffin of their argument "You're a Nazi/racist/fascist" or whichever slur is de rigeur at that moment.

Wake up people, you are being had!

Where have facts been misrepresented?
Who is angry - apart from you?
And as to calling you a racist.....if you are one, (and you clearly are) why is one not allowed to point it out?

If anyone is being had it is the people who are taken in by the vile rhetoric that emanates from your keyboard.

Anyone to quote the lentil eating, cardigan wearing, BBC loved peacemonger:
There is enough for everyone's need not everyone's greed.

You people fall for it every time. I won't even rise to your insults, just point out that if any R--IST word applies to me it's 'realist'. Realism as in recognizing the massive culture clash that occurs in countries taking in the migrants, the expense at the cost to our own needy as the result of politicians playing the big 'I am!' and benefactor with our taxes while the nation is in massive debt.
Of course you won't rise from your ostrich position and accept that for every 'Afghan Interpreter' (who is allegedly in Calais anyway and not in S.Europe) there are 100 criminals and terrorists which you won't focus on. Of course you will not have researched the massive and dangerous problems caused in those countries I listed previously.
'There is enough for everyone's need not everyone's greed' - a fitting epitaph to the dying philosophy of murderous Communism. I'll leave that to your friend in Pyongyang......

[motherhubbard]

A little light-hearted aside and the 2 of them are very quick to get defensive.
Methinks they do protest too much.

So where are the misrepresentations of facts?

It isn't an insult to call you a racist. It is simply a statement of fact.
For every "Afghan translator" there are 100 criminals and terrorists? Can you back that statement up with any sort of proof?
Absolute tosh - to coin a phrase. Absolute racist tosh.

How do you have a sensible conversation with someone who regards the philosophy of Gandhi as the impetus for the leaders of N. Korea?
It shows how far to the right you really are. And I don't think you should be allowed to se this board to expound your vile philosophy unchallenged.

[motherhubbard]

Pretty accurate synopsis of the 'Syrian' crisis.

I would agree with much of that video and in my very long experience of allowing entrance to migrants, todays migrants are tomorrows criminal headline which, seemingly, once convicted we still can't get rid of them. We are far too soft as a nation much of it in response to EU legislation and petty do-gooders with a penchant for PC correctness. I would close the borders altogether allowing no one in until every person in the UK has a home and a job and there is no need for food banks. Just think of all the money wasted on foreign aid over the last 40 or 50 years, the billions propping up the banks and the cost of military intervention abroad and now think how that would make a difference to poverty here at home.

If you think closing the borders would in any way alleviate the suffering of the needy and the oppressed you are either very naïve or soft in the head.
Do you think our political elite would stop quaffing their Bollinger long enough to care about the hungry or the homeless before they pass another raft of legislation to undermine their already precarious position?
I'm sure there must be a name for your politics. It seems a bit like socialism but on a national scale. What would one call that I wonder?
Socialism but only national. And maybe you could open the borders when you need a little lebensraum?

How about we open the borders and make sure everyone has a decent job, a decent house and a decent future.
Decent schools, decent hospitals and decent pensions. And free prescriptions like in Scotland.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Welcome to the Polotics of fear - it really has embedded itself in our Society. Not sure who I should blame. But for me, it will always be action for hope, rather than in fear. That may be naive, but its better than hiding behind the curtain and only peeking out when its gone away.

[bustedflush]

Pretty accurate synopsis of the 'Syrian' crisis.

I would agree with much of that video and in my very long experience of allowing entrance to migrants, todays migrants are tomorrows criminal headline which, seemingly, once convicted we still can't get rid of them. We are far too soft as a nation much of it in response to EU legislation and petty do-gooders with a penchant for PC correctness. I would close the borders altogether allowing no one in until every person in the UK has a home and a job and there is no need for food banks. Just think of all the money wasted on foreign aid over the last 40 or 50 years, the billions propping up the banks and the cost of military intervention abroad and now think how that would make a difference to poverty here at home.

If you think closing the borders would in any way alleviate the suffering of the needy and the oppressed you are either very naïve or soft in the head.
Do you think our political elite would stop quaffing their Bollinger long enough to care about the hungry or the homeless before they pass another raft of legislation to undermine their already precarious position?
I'm sure there must be a name for your politics. It seems a bit like socialism but on a national scale. What would one call that I wonder?
Socialism but only national. And maybe you could open the borders when you need a little lebensraum?

How about we open the borders and make sure everyone has a decent job, a decent house and a decent future.
Decent schools, decent hospitals and decent pensions. And free prescriptions like in Scotland.

I have to chuckle at the naïve idealism; the fantasist in his most deluded state. I suppose you were brought up to criticize the boy whose finger plugged the dyke, and would have told him "RUN! - and hope for the best..."
OK we've heard your fantasy about 'opening the borders and making sure everybody has a decent house and job'.

Where would you build millions of homes?
Who would employ millions of non-British people in decent jobs?
Who would pay their pensions?
What about the 2 million unemployed already here?
Who pays for all these hospitals?

As for a decent future, and yes I absolutely believe this, this is what we'll end up with - even as things stand and without the complete suicidal lunacy that you advocate:

[bustedflush]

Pretty accurate synopsis of the 'Syrian' crisis.

I would agree with much of that video and in my very long experience of allowing entrance to migrants, todays migrants are tomorrows criminal headline which, seemingly, once convicted we still can't get rid of them. We are far too soft as a nation much of it in response to EU legislation and petty do-gooders with a penchant for PC correctness. I would close the borders altogether allowing no one in until every person in the UK has a home and a job and there is no need for food banks. Just think of all the money wasted on foreign aid over the last 40 or 50 years, the billions propping up the banks and the cost of military intervention abroad and now think how that would make a difference to poverty here at home.

If you think closing the borders would in any way alleviate the suffering of the needy and the oppressed you are either very naïve or soft in the head.
Do you think our political elite would stop quaffing their Bollinger long enough to care about the hungry or the homeless before they pass another raft of legislation to undermine their already precarious position?
I'm sure there must be a name for your politics. It seems a bit like socialism but on a national scale. What would one call that I wonder?
Socialism but only national. And maybe you could open the borders when you need a little lebensraum?

How about we open the borders and make sure everyone has a decent job, a decent house and a decent future.
Decent schools, decent hospitals and decent pensions. And free prescriptions like in Scotland.

I have to chuckle at the naïve idealism; the fantasist in his most deluded state. I suppose you were brought up to criticize the boy whose finger plugged the dyke, and would have told him "RUN! - and hope for the best..."
OK we've heard your fantasy about 'opening the borders and making sure everybody has a decent house and job'.

Where would you build millions of homes?
Who would employ millions of non-British people in decent jobs?
Who would pay their pensions?
What about the 2 million unemployed already here?
Who pays for all these hospitals?

As for a decent future, and yes I absolutely believe this, this is what we'll end up with - even as things stand and without the complete suicidal lunacy that you advocate:

I urge everybody to read the text from 54:30 and onwards in this video. This means people like Mother can ignore the fake footage of all the fake towns and fake people and fake problems I am fabricating in my arguments, and just read the prophecy. Of course, should you believe those words at the end not to be true, then there can only be one way they won't be, right? Something that I had hoped ended in 1945 for our nations.

[dvbuk55]

How about we open the borders and make sure everyone has a decent job, a decent house and a decent future.
Decent schools, decent hospitals and decent pensions. And free prescriptions like in Scotland.

Yes what a great idea lets become the social services for the world. We don't need these people. They take a risk crossing from Turkey to Greece by sea when there is a land border without endangering their children. Personally I have no sympathy whatsoever with the migrants or refugees and no amount of sob stories will change my mind. Contributing financially to the welfare of this nation for over 50 years I most certainly begrudge sharing it with people who have contributed nothing. Good on Germany for taking 800,000 this year and next, or 1.6 million people which is a larger number than many of our cities. Every credit to Cameron stating we will take 20,000 over the next 5 years and they don't get to stay forever, I may even vote conservative next time.

[motherhubbard]

As for a decent future, and yes I absolutely believe this, this is what we'll end up with - even as things stand and without the complete suicidal lunacy that you advocate:

Busted - why would anyone watch a video that is nearly an hour long?
Is it full of people like you who think Mahatma Gandhi was the spiritual founding father of N Korea?
Is it full of hysterical hyperbole like - for every genuine refugee there are 100 terrorists? You still have made no attempt to back that claim up. Is it because you can't?
And why did you put "Afghan translator" in inverted commas, as though I had made it up? The petition the soldiers started is on Change.org. Though it is a sad state of affairs when the British Army is full of cardigan eaters and lentil wearers.

Why don't you crawl back under the stone with the other Islamophobe nut jobs you seem to admire?
(Maybe we'll let you out once a year when we won't let you march along the Brighton seafront. )
I don't think a postman's and woman's forum is the place for you to expound your half-baked crackpot conspiracy theories.

[motherhubbard]

We don't need these people.
Personally I have no sympathy whatsoever with the migrants or refugees and no amount of sob stories will change my mind.
I may even vote conservative next time.

1. Yes we do need immigration because it is and always has been wealth creating.
2. That says an awful lot about you and nothing about the current situation.
3 More fool you.

[bustedflush]

As for a decent future, and yes I absolutely believe this, this is what we'll end up with - even as things stand and without the complete suicidal lunacy that you advocate:

Busted - why would anyone watch a video that is nearly an hour long?
Is it full of people like you who think Mahatma Gandhi was the spiritual founding father of N Korea?
Is it full of hysterical hyperbole like - for every genuine refugee there are 100 terrorists? You still have made no attempt to back that claim up. Is it because you can't?
And why did you put "Afghan translator" in inverted commas, as though I had made it up? The petition the soldiers started is on Change.org. Though it is a sad state of affairs when the British Army is full of cardigan eaters and lentil wearers.

Why don't you crawl back under the stone with the other Islamophobe nut jobs you seem to admire?
(Maybe we'll let you out once a year when we won't let you march along the Brighton seafront. )
I don't think a postman's and woman's forum is the place for you to expound your half-baked crackpot conspiracy theories.

I said watch from 54:30, the text.
I cannot take a bloke who drank a cup of his own p!ss for breakfast seriously.
I also said that your Afghan example was in Calais already in a safe EU country and NOT one of the colonizers coming in through S. Europe and was therefore not relevant. A failed diversion of yours I'm afraid, mentioned in the manner of somebody who quotes his gran as having smoked 120 cigs a day and lived to 112 but failing to mention the 100 similar who died prematurely.
Maybe Brighton is a focal point of your, ermm, 'personal proclivities' but certainly not of mine. Sorry I won't be there, but each to their own.

And I already pointed you in the direction of news videos from various countries with real stats and footage of my 'half-baked theories' which contain Police stats, dependency figures and evidence of huge social problems.

[dvbuk55]

We don't need these people.
Personally I have no sympathy whatsoever with the migrants or refugees and no amount of sob stories will change my mind.
I may even vote conservative next time.

1. Yes we do need immigration because it is and always has been wealth creating.
2. That says an awful lot about you and nothing about the current situation.
3 More fool you.

The fools are the ones prepared to shell out to keep what is tantamount to a horde of beggars. And the current situation is Deutschland is taking 1.6 million over 2 years and we are taking 20,000 over 5 years and they aren't going to be allowed to stay. Now as for immigration being a wealth creator believe me I've yet to see it, unless you count child trafficking, insurance scams and steaming through shops by the gypsies. I'll tell you what though mother,(perhaps that should be Therese rather than hubbard) if you have a spare room why not house one yourself and provide food, clothing and spending money and in that small way salve your conscience. Of course you'll have to convert to Islam, wear a burkha and abide by Sharia Law because it isn't about immigration only its about integration and that is certainly a lesson we need to learn before things go too far and our national identity is lost. As a woman I'm surprised you are pro Islam where women are second class citizens.