Re-sign Seniority list . Revision

[piranha]

If you left and came back the total number years of service counts for your seniority, get onto the union about this. This happened at my office a few people were pissed off because the guy left and came back but kept his seniority. You have 10 years service not 4.

[97gaz]

[

[enskied]

If you left and came back the total number years of service counts for your seniority, get onto the union about this. This happened at my office a few people were pissed off because the guy left and came back but kept his seniority. You have 10 years service not 4.

No he doesn't. He would have if immediately upon his return his seniority was carried forward under local agreement. It wasn't and can not be applied retrospectively.

[Martin Walsh]

If you look back in history and there are few good books on the postal history including one written by Norman Candy a former London Divisional Rep, PEC member and Policy Advisor to Dave Ward who led many a dispute , his book is London Postal Workers History and I have a number of copies of any individual wants one.

Before seniority postal workers bought their duty by paying the manager and if you did not then you got the crap jobs. The 1971 dispute was about removing the pay credinatials as well as pay rise. You were on less pay the less years you had worked and this meant what duty you could perform was restricted.

This was replaced by seniority but seniority on different grades. So most offices had a PHG seniority based on when you first began as a PHG not when you started as a postman /woman and Drivers seniority list when you became a driver and postman /woman list of when you started the job. Your seniority was lost if you transferred to another area as local and area agreements often included this and your seniority often was lost when you reached 60 which was the normal retirement age but you could ask to be retained.

In 2000 under the way forward seniority was redefined as a National Agreement. PHGs were removed as were drivers seniority lists. The new grade was Opperational Postal Grade. All uniformed staff in mail centres , RDCs and Delivery Offices came under this and were paid the same basic pay.

Seniority based on length of service and dare I say it loyalty is still the fairest way of allocating jobs of the same grade to postal workers who are from the same grade. What other options are there ?

Managements friend , favourite

The oldest ?

The quickest

The one with the least sick

The one not on any stage warnings

The one with no conduct

The one with the least customer complaints

The one with the the most flexibility

The one who is prepared to do absorption ?

Or would you prefer something which happens in many other industries and Royal Mail wanted in 1996 personal development plans which mean your interviewed twice s year on your overall performance and then your allocated a job based on these interviews. This is a massive issue in British Telecom at the moment where this interviews are used as a bullying tool.

So whilst seniority is not perfect , it is a fair process for selecting duties within a single grade. remember there are 130 000 OPGs ?

[Dorset Plodder]

Very interesting Post Thanks Dingo Although I don't think I'll take up your reading recommendation....A bit too heavy for me!

[Dorset Plodder]

Well Tombub85 you certainly opened a can of worms there. However at least it promoted some discussion....which is what this site is about. Seniority is here to stay. Whether you like it or not there doesn't really seem to be a practical alternative, for all the reasons mentioned.

You are obviously going through a rough patch at the moment, and we all go through those, at these times things really seem to grind our gears. We could have a competition on on here for how long people have been on Reserve/Floater duties (my bids for 10 years so far) and I consider myself lucky to have a Full Time job, some of our colleagues aren't that lucky.

Perhaps we should be concentrating more on getting all the duties the same length? Then there wouldn't be as much upset over picking them. I've never had much input over the office revisions and I've never managed to work out how some duties can be left unchanged and others have too much added. It does seem that the same old faces seem to end up with the shorter duties though!

[tomdub85]

It's great to read all the responses this thread has got, makes for some interesting reading.

I'm no Royal Mail expert but I now know exactly why and how we got seniority within Royal Mail and I'll admit my opinion is now very different on regards to seniority with all the facts. We all go through changes in our work life and it's the place we spend most of our time, so why wouldn't you try and fight your corner this is the next maybe 10 years of my working life that's being decided over the coming days and weeks.

Thanks for all the responses

Grumpy old postman

[PostieSP1]

If i lose my six weeks annual leave as a 20+ because it's deemed unfair by the bottom feeders,ill be well chaffed off!!!

[bandit1157]

If i lose my six weeks annual leave as a 20+ because it's deemed unfair by the bottom feeders,ill be well chaffed off!!!

I'm sure you can get some cream for that

[TrueBlueTerrier]

If i lose my six weeks annual leave as a 20+ because it's deemed unfair by the bottom feeders,ill be well chaffed off!!!

Never happen, its a contractual entitlement and a reward for loyalty = entirely legal and fair.

[miles_peters]

tomdub85

1. you knew duty allocation was based around seniority before you started
2. put the shoe on the other foot

I waited 14 years to get a duty. if someone with 4 years had got a duty over me, I would have been devastated.

[Jaggs]

Even if you don't get a duty you might end up with a decent cover group or are you definitely going to be a reserve/floater?

[piranha]

Well it happened in my office someone put in a grievance to try and stop it but the guy kept his seniority after leaving and coming back
and picked a nice duty

[PostieBlue]

I think the whole "rewarded for loyal service" aka seniority way of things is the most just and fair way you can do it.

If you want a nice round stick around long enough to get it. If you want to screw over others and get the easiest round while you work with RM inbetween college and Uni, I feel sorry for you son, .

Yes I'm possibly the lowest on the totem pole in my office. No complaints here. Earn things dont expect them handed to you on a silver plate.

[bogstandard]

Our office is well overdue a re-pick - or at the very least some of the duties need to be advertised on the boards


And its primarily because when a full-timer left on VR terms, they put a newbie on that round and never took them off it! Thus, you get some guys that have only been a postie for 3 years working on a fixed duty whilst you get some that have been here for 10 years working as bl***dy floater week in, week out!!

Our union reps are not much cop at our depot, after all they got their own rounds to worry about anybody else's. But I do feel for some of the guys. I think what is preventing a re-pick is that some posties on relatively good duties just don't want a re-pick - whilst others who are leave reserves/floaters or spares desperately want a change.

Can't really argue with the seniority list though. Rewarding staff who have had unbroken service seems very fair to me, after all we all remember having to work different duties on different days years ago....

check out The Way Forward, resourcing to jobs that do not require selection by skills, p27 section 14.6