I went to work early today

[k979aaa]

Would someone still be covered under Royal Mail's health and safety even though they came in an hour earlier than their official time??

Its a common question and the answer, despite claims to the contrary, yes they are covered.


Carrying out an employer's business'
In order for an employer to be considered vicariously liable for a work accident compensation claim, the negligent employee must been have carrying out employer's business at the time the work injury was sustained.Taking precedents set in vicarious liability work accident compensation cases that have gone to the UK's higher courts, it would seem that vicarious liability is established in cases where a negligent employee is at work'. This rule generally applies to all work accident compensation claims, even if the negligent employee is carrying out work in a manner which has been expressly forbidden by the employer.

So if the managers stopped anyone coming in before time this is a preventative cost saviour for the business shame they cannot be enforced to make sure this compliance is met with the same zeal as sickness attendance and non wearing of hi viz vest's!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Your posting at cross purposes, or rather mixing up 2 different subjects.

Early starters are covered by insurance even if RM ban them, but there is nothing wrong with RM banning them. Its a reasonable request........ .

[arnold cheshire]

you can not ask why people start early its harrasment

Yes you can, when your the one the gets pulled in the office,for not being able to complete a duty in time.

the DOM is not allowed to compare you with anyone else get the union rep involved if your having problems cutting off

[Digger1975]

I work in an office with 17 deliveries (7 rurals and 10 towns). Rural deliveries start at 7 and towns 6.45 (apart from a couple that start at 8). As a town delivery I am generally in at 6.35 and I openly admit I sometime spend 5 minutes or so throwing in a bit of walk sequenced mail before going on the IPS. However 2 sometimes 3 rurals are in before me and have thrown their sequenced mail in before 6.45!! As with most offices there are arguments about people running around, starting early, not taking breaks, etc, etc. I don't know how it works in other offices but if ours is clear on returning from delivery we are allowed to leave. Again this creates arguments the next day re runners, people carving up the jobs, etc, etc. Are there any offices that make OPG'S stay to their finish time? I have always thought that this would work in our office and would stop all of the arguments once and for all. For example town deliveries finish time is 14.03 on a Monday and Tuesday so no one is allowed to leave before 13.43. Rurals 14.18 so 13.58 for them.

[aiden01]

I work in an office with 17 deliveries (7 rurals and 10 towns). Rural deliveries start at 7 and towns 6.45 (apart from a couple that start at 8). As a town delivery I am generally in at 6.35 and I openly admit I sometime spend 5 minutes or so throwing in a bit of walk sequenced mail before going on the IPS. However 2 sometimes 3 rurals are in before me and have thrown their sequenced mail in before 6.45!! As with most offices there are arguments about people running around, starting early, not taking breaks, etc, etc. I don't know how it works in other offices but if ours is clear on returning from delivery we are allowed to leave. Again this creates arguments the next day re runners, people carving up the jobs, etc, etc. Are there any offices that make OPG'S stay to their finish time? I have always thought that this would work in our office and would stop all of the arguments once and for all. For example town deliveries finish time is 14.03 on a Monday and Tuesday so no one is allowed to leave before 13.43. Rurals 14.18 so 13.58 for them.

so why do you continue to work for nothing at least 30mins a week that's 26hrs a year [ok take your leave out of that] still 23hrs if you have 6 weeks leave nearly £250 a year you are giving to rm maybe more depending on allowances thought job and finish ended a few years ago.

[Gilly856]

Fools work for nothing you I get £11.00 per hour extra.

[arnold cheshire]

Fools work for nothing you I get £11.00 per hour extra.

extra ?

[Digger1975]

I work in an office with 17 deliveries (7 rurals and 10 towns). Rural deliveries start at 7 and towns 6.45 (apart from a couple that start at 8). As a town delivery I am generally in at 6.35 and I openly admit I sometime spend 5 minutes or so throwing in a bit of walk sequenced mail before going on the IPS. However 2 sometimes 3 rurals are in before me and have thrown their sequenced mail in before 6.45!! As with most offices there are arguments about people running around, starting early, not taking breaks, etc, etc. I don't know how it works in other offices but if ours is clear on returning from delivery we are allowed to leave. Again this creates arguments the next day re runners, people carving up the jobs, etc, etc. Are there any offices that make OPG'S stay to their finish time? I have always thought that this would work in our office and would stop all of the arguments once and for all. For example town deliveries finish time is 14.03 on a Monday and Tuesday so no one is allowed to leave before 13.43. Rurals 14.18 so 13.58 for them.

so why do you continue to work for nothing at least 30mins a week that's 26hrs a year [ok take your leave out of that] still 23hrs if you have 6 weeks leave nearly £250 a year you are giving to rm maybe more depending on allowances thought job and finish ended a few years ago.

Read the post again I said I sometimes spend 5 minutes or so throwing my sequence mail off that doesn't mean every day. Even if I did it every day it would still only be 25 minutes per week not 30. Also I quoted that if the office is clear when we finish delivery we are allowed to leave. So IF I get back early I am not working for nothing. However the reason for my post was to ask the question as to if other other offices are made to stay until their finish time not to be accused of working for nothing, etc etc.

[Digger1975]

Fools work for nothing you I get £11.00 per hour extra.

extra ?

How does that work?

[cantonkid1955]

just to clarify a point..If anyone CHOOSES to go into work and perform their duties BEFORE their official start time they will NOT be covered by insurance should anything happen so they think they are being clever by making things easier for themselves but they are creating more problems.,If you go into work 30 mins earlier every day equals 10 hours a month equals 120 hours a year 5 days unpaid work,,who in their right mind would work a week for free?

[yellowbelly]

Can anybody quote the law/regulation/rule/insurance clause statement that says employees will not be covered by insurance if they start work early?

I'm commenting as a newbie, but if you've signed into/on work with your actual start time (irrespective of your scheduled start time) aren't you are 'at work' and therefore 'covered'?

I could see an employer or their insurance company trying to fight a claim if the individual hadn't signed on for work and
I've seen the CWU posters which say don't start before your start time (because of the manning issues) but I've not seen/read anything
from CWU or RM that says you are not covered insurance wise if you start work early (whether you've signed in or not).

An example - a quote from an AXA Employer Liability Insurance T & C's (my underlining):

What is covered

Awards of damages cover

We will pay the amount of damages for which you, or any of the additional
persons insured, are liable at law and claim costs in respect of accidental
bodily injury to any employed person caused during the period of insurance
and arising out of and in the course of their employment by you in connection
with the business.

Again, where an employer/their insurance company might try and fight the claim is the last sentence
(which is written separately to a - d) of the definition of 'Employed Person' below which I have underlined:

Employed person

1 Anyone under a contract of service or
apprenticeship with you
2 Anyone who is
a employed by you or on your
behalf on a labour only basis
b self employed
c hired to you or borrowed by you
from another employer
d a voluntary helper or taking part
in a work experience or training
scheme

and under your control or supervision.

where they may say you've not signed into work so you're not under our control/supervision.

YB

[TrueBlueTerrier]

My Opinions:

Should people start early - no.

Are they covered. In my opinion yes, just because I disagree with their actions doesn't mean I shouldn't give correct advice. Its covered under a legal term called "Vicarious Liability"

Vicarious liability refers to a situation where someone is held responsible for the actions or omissions of another person. In a workplace context, an employer can be liable for the acts or omissions of its employees.

Employers are vicariously liable, under the respondeat superior doctrine, for negligent acts or omissions by their employees in the course of employment. For an act to be considered within the course of employment, it must either be authorized or be so connected with an authorized act that it can be considered a mode, though an improper mode, of performing it. An employer will be held liable if an employee does an authorised act in an unauthorised way.