Procedure for customers who are unable to sign?

[motherhubbard]

What about disability favouritism?

Please provide a link to help us establish the legal parameters of disability favouritism.
I have never heard of it.

[hampshireman]

I have a customer who refuses to sign as she won't touch pda as she has OCD & thinks it's dirty so I leave a wait form as no way am I signing she might say it never came & then I will be in trouble

Once again I wonder if RM is falling foul of disability discrimination here.
If you alert your manager to the problem I don't see why you would have any problems signing for her.
The PDA will prove you were standing on her doorstep when you scanned the item.

For disabilities like this there is a procedure in place, simply put name as DNS which stands for delivered no signature and that's it and hand over item, the procedure is in the pda manual

What's a PDA manual?
My 'training ' on the PDA lasted 5 mins with a bored OPG , who did not care.

[motherhubbard]

What's a PDA manual?
My 'training ' on the PDA lasted 5 mins with a bored OPG , who did not care.

And I don't think the PDA manual explains that OCD may be a disability.
I could be wrong.

[yellowbelly]

OCD being a disability - PDA manual just states that 'if the user has a disability......' doesn't go into what a disability is
as far as I can see, but in law:

Equality Act 2010, Part 2, Ch 1, Para 6(1):

A person (P) has a disability if—

(a)P has a physical or mental impairment, and

(b)the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on P's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

and from https://www.gov.uk/when-mental-health-c ... disability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are many different types of mental health condition which can lead to a disability, including:

dementia
depression
bipolar disorder
obsessive compulsive disorder
schizophrenia
self-harm

YB

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I have a woman on my round who wears a burka and refuses to answer the door and to come back when her husband is home. She gets a 739 every time

I have a few on my round, none refuse to answer the door, they wear their Burqa, Chador, Abaya Niqab or Hijab as appropriate to their beliefs. Each to their own I guess.

[Richard007]

I have a customer who refuses to sign as she won't touch pda as she has OCD & thinks it's dirty so I leave a wait form as no way am I signing she might say it never came & then I will be in trouble

Once again I wonder if RM is falling foul of disability discrimination here.
If you alert your manager to the problem I don't see why you would have any problems signing for her.
The PDA will prove you were standing on her doorstep when you scanned the item.

For disabilities like this there is a procedure in place, simply put name as DNS which stands for delivered no signature and that's it and hand over item, the procedure is in the pda manual

No way !! I don't trust anyone no sign no parcel/item she makes her husband drive in for it to pick up & sign in the proper manner why should I take a chance she might say I never left it, nobody in my training ever told me to do any different & I won't read 1000 pages of manuals about the PDA unless they are paying me I do lapsing ever day & have to claim overtime I don't want so that's how it is in real world I'm sure managers come on here & tell us what we should do but I do what's best for me

[meercat]

Ladies and Gents, here's my ten pence worth to the discussion from the experience of having
had to go on an E & D course every three years in my previous job (aaaagggghhh) and having a
person with a disability in the workplace but (as you'll see from my posting history) not being a postie yet!!

A lot of people (me included!) always found scenarios such as this hard to get their heads around
and often there were 'disagreements', but here we go.......!

OCD situation - RM is 'acting positively' (not positively discriminating ) and making reasonable adjustments by apparently providing a method of recording on the PDA
that the person WNS/CNS/DNS for the delivery as the OCD is being interpreted as being a disability (which it can be according to .gov.uk website).

Next door neighbour (without OCD) is not being discriminated against - Equality Act 2010, including Part 2, Ch 2, Para 13, sub para 3:

If the protected characteristic is disability, and B is not a disabled person, A does not discriminate against B only because
A treats or would treat disabled persons more favourably than A treats B.

As they say at the end of exam questions - 'discuss' or more likely - rip to pieces........

YB

Excellent answer. I agree with the Equality Act in principle on this point then. We can't reasonably ignore a disability so have to make allowances for it. At the same time we can't treat everyone as we do the disabled individual because logistically that would be impractical. In essence then - the able bodied are no worse off while the disabled are given a few favours which seems fair as they have it tough.

[meercat]

What about disability favouritism?

Please provide a link to help us establish the legal parameters of disability favouritism.
I have never heard of it.

I think you are trying to be smart but my phrase actually makes full grammatical sense - it is just not commonly used. It quite clearly means giving favourable treatment to the disabled. Ever heard of someone coining a phrase? It's not illegal you know.


Well for your benefit only here is a link to an article (American, hence the spelling) on parental favouritism (towards a particular child) - one reason cited is that one of the children is disabled.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3406900171.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Favoritism is a specific type of differential treatment; it occurs when one child receives more positive treatment...some studies have investigated parental differential treatment in families in which the younger sibling has a disability compared to families that contained two children with no known handicaps. In these families, older siblings who spent more time with their mothers compared to their disabled siblings showed higher levels of depression and anxiety'

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I have a customer who refuses to sign as she won't touch pda as she has OCD & thinks it's dirty so I leave a wait form as no way am I signing she might say it never came & then I will be in trouble

Once again I wonder if RM is falling foul of disability discrimination here.
If you alert your manager to the problem I don't see why you would have any problems signing for her.
The PDA will prove you were standing on her doorstep when you scanned the item.

For disabilities like this there is a procedure in place, simply put name as DNS which stands for delivered no signature and that's it and hand over item, the procedure is in the pda manual

No way !! I don't trust anyone no sign no parcel/item she makes her husband drive in for it to pick up & sign in the proper manner why should I take a chance she might say I never left it, nobody in my training ever told me to do any different & I won't read 1000 pages of manuals about the PDA unless they are paying me I do lapsing ever day & have to claim overtime I don't want so that's how it is in real world I'm sure managers come on here & tell us what we should do but I do what's best for me

So discriminating against disabled people is best for you? I am pretty sure there is a law against discriminating against disabled people, with that sort of attitude I am pretty sure you are breaking that law. What would you do if the person was a double hand amputee and lived alone? Still p739 it?

[motherhubbard]

What about disability favouritism?

Please provide a link to help us establish the legal parameters of disability favouritism.
I have never heard of it.

I think you are trying to be smart but my phrase actually makes full grammatical sense - it is just not commonly used. It quite clearly means giving favourable treatment to the disabled. Ever heard of someone coining a phrase? It's not illegal you know.

Actually I think you were trying to be smart by introducing into the debate completely irrelevant material, as if disability favouritism has any legal foundation.
Disabled people have certain protections under the law.
It would appear that some (possibly most) OPGs are completely ignorant of their responsibilities towards disabled customers and even as to what constitutes a disability.
This is undoubtedly due to a lack of training and is something the company needs to address in my opinion.

[meercat]

Actually I think you were trying to be smart by introducing into the debate completely irrelevant material, as if disability favouritism has any legal foundation.

JAW HITS GROUND.

IT DOES!

'''THE GOVERNMENT has quietly signed up to a European accord allowing "positive discrimination" rather than equal treatment for women and members of ethnic minorities.''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk-ba ... 83055.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That article is from 1998!!!!

Positive discrimination or more commonly called 'positive action' (the same thing in essence as far as I can see) is legal for women and ethnic minorities during the hiring process (which I kind of knew) which is why I asked the question about favouritism towards the disabled. For a self-proclaimed expert in equal opportunities you certainly don't know much about the law. ''Completely irrelevant'' huh?!!!!

Did you not read yellowbelly's post on the last page OR my reply to it on this page??????

Equality Act 2010, including Part 2, Ch 2, Para 13, sub para 3:

If the protected characteristic is disability, and B is not a disabled person, A does not discriminate against B only because
A treats or would treat disabled persons more favourably than A treats B.

[motherhubbard]

meercat wrote:


What about disability favouritism? If this lady who won't touch the PDA is given the right by RM to receive parcels without signing I would assume if you have a recorded packet or letter that fits through the letter box you don't even need to knock, just do a DNS and post it through. Yet her neighbour who is also not is gets a form left card and has to wait a day and drive 10miles to pick up her recorded letter that would have gone through the door.

So are we positively discriminating here and does the neighbour with the form left card have a legitimate grievance in that she is inconvenienced yet her neighbour gets seemingly preferential treatment. Where is the equality there? ?

Forgive me if I misread this but I thought you were arguing that it was unfair for a disabled person to receive preferential treatment.
You coined the phrase "disability favouritism" to describe this.

You then provided an American study that showed that the able bodied sibling of a disabled child didn't thrive as well.

Once again I read this as an argument against positive action.

You then appear to back your argument up by citing the Equality Act from Yellowbelly's post which is completely at odds with your argument.
The neighbour with the form left card doesn't have a legitimate grievance.
Sorry if I am confused. I am sure you know what you are on about.

But hey ho it doesn't matter because it is irrelevant.

[mbavelja]

I work in an area with a fair amount of Jewish people. When I have a signed for item most of them are happy to sign for it (though I know not everyone in a house with a mezuzah on the door is lived in by Jewish people - my old house had one).

However, in my few years I've a postman I've had a handful of people say they can't sign for the item because it's the sabbath day. One happened today.

Is there an official way to deal with this?

Thank you for your email to Moya’s JustSayIt site. I work as part of the Just Say It team and have been asked to reply.

The only time we would deliver an item requiring a signature without first gaining the recipient’s signature is when the receiving customers has a disability that prevents them providing a signature. It cannot be used for customers who refuse to sign for their items on religious grounds.


If someone refuses to sign for a signature item, the item must be return to the office, endorsed as refused and returned to sender.

If someone does not want to sign for items on a particular day, then one possible solution could be to offer then a Mail Retention. With this service the customer may wish to choose one of the following options:


•I DO want my mail to be delivered Monday to Saturdays (excluding bank or public holidays).


•I do NOT want any mail to be delivered on Saturdays.


•I do NOT want mail that needs to be signed for (e.g. Special Delivery) delivered on Saturday, but I do want other mail delivered. This may be the most appropriate in this particular instance.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

meercat wrote:


What about disability favouritism? If this lady who won't touch the PDA is given the right by RM to receive parcels without signing I would assume if you have a recorded packet or letter that fits through the letter box you don't even need to knock, just do a DNS and post it through. Yet her neighbour who is also not is gets a form left card and has to wait a day and drive 10miles to pick up her recorded letter that would have gone through the door.

So are we positively discriminating here and does the neighbour with the form left card have a legitimate grievance in that she is inconvenienced yet her neighbour gets seemingly preferential treatment. Where is the equality there? ?

Forgive me if I misread this but I thought you were arguing that it was unfair for a disabled person to receive preferential treatment.
You coined the phrase "disability favouritism" to describe this.

You then provided an American study that showed that the able bodied sibling of a disabled child didn't thrive as well.

Once again I read this as an argument against positive action.

You then appear to back your argument up by citing the Equality Act from Yellowbelly's post which is completely at odds with your argument.
The neighbour with the form left card doesn't have a legitimate grievance.
Sorry if I am confused. I am sure you know what you are on about.

But hey ho it doesn't matter because it is irrelevant.

He does have a habit of contradicting himself and arguing one point then a few posts later saying the opposite

[Pinky 1]

It would appear that some (possibly most) OPGs are completely ignorant of their responsibilities towards disabled customers and even as to what constitutes a disability.
This is undoubtedly due to a lack of training and is something the company needs to address in my opinion.

It's undoubtedly down to a lack of training