Due a disciplinary for gross misconduct

[Fatyud88]

I am due a disciplinary for gross misconduct for wilful delay of mail. The alleged charge was an observation made on a postbox on my collection route. Alleging a test letter was not collected. After the first fact finding interview my rep made it clear' I could not be conducted on an isolated mistake'. They then went onto say three boxes were scanned in a minute space with a mile distance between all boxes accusing me of remote scanning.
I have asked for the run times of the pda twice, these were not shown to me.
The observation needed to be clarified by the manager who performed it. -this was not clarified.
I am now facing the hearing with no evidence made to me and my rep telling me they can dismiss you on reasonable belief/doubt. Surely this cannot be the employment law??

The letter inviting me in states the charge is for failing to collect the letter via the observation.
No where on the letter does it say I am being charged with remote scanning.

Thoughts and views please, don't feel supported enough by my rep

[fishtank]

First of all in all cases where consideration of dismissal is involved you need to get in touch with your branch and area rep, if necessary cancel the interview until he/she is available.

[Fatyud88]

I am in touch, been going on 6 weeks now. No support and feels like it's all been set up. My rep said that they believe and in employment law they only need doubt

[fishtank]

I am in touch, been going on 6 weeks now. No support and feels like it's all been set up. My rep said that they believe and in employment law they only need doubt

They don't need doubt or proof, they need reasonable belief which roughly translates as given the evidence it would be considered reasonable to come to that decision.

There has to be evidence though and it has to reasonably point to your guilt.

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

Could you have been worried about the time and broken the speed limit to get those three collection box scans done in three minutes?

But if the letter regarding disciplinary only talks of the test letter, surely they are handing you an employment tribunal "get out of jail free card" if the post box scan is brought up during the disciplinary?

[Fatyud88]

Exactly what I thought when I got the letter yesterday. They believe I could not make them scan times that quickly, I answered I don't know how they were so close .i was rushing that day as asked manager for help with delivery he refused and I also text later on for help and ended starting my collection late.(hybrid job). But I must of been in superman mode to go that fast. Not sure if PDAs have been proven to mess up before tho. I'm stuck,

Ps I go to Mexico get married next Saturday perfect timing and the incident fell just around the date of my two year temp period where I thought I was going permanent.

[rehabron]

I am due a disciplinary for gross misconduct for wilful delay of mail. The alleged charge was an observation made on a postbox on my collection route. Alleging a test letter was not collected. After the first fact finding interview my rep made it clear' I could not be conducted on an isolated mistake'. They then went onto say three boxes were scanned in a minute space with a mile distance between all boxes accusing me of remote scanning.
I have asked for the run times of the pda twice, these were not shown to me.
The observation needed to be clarified by the manager who performed it. -this was not clarified.
I am now facing the hearing with no evidence made to me and my rep telling me they can dismiss you on reasonable belief/doubt. Surely this cannot be the employment law??

The letter inviting me in states the charge is for failing to collect the letter via the observation.
No where on the letter does it say I am being charged with remote scanning.

Thoughts and views please, don't feel supported enough by my rep

In relation to remote scanning as each pillar box has its own unique barcode you would have had to have been at these 3 pillar boxes for them to be recorded on the PDA system and having completed this within a minute space in a mile radius would seem impossible and would have expected you to explain this if all of these 3 pillar boxes have the same clearance times and you are not being accused of clearing these boxes early.
As this part of your situation has not been mentioned in the letter inviting you to the disciplinary meeting then this will not form part of the disciplinary hearing and probably due to the fact that despite repeated requests from you for the run times they have not been produced.
With regards to the charge of failing to collect a test letter. Yes you can be disciplined if employer has a reasonable belief that an offence has been committed bot only after a FAIR AND FULL INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN COMPLETED.
What is a REASONABLE belief (1) Did the observer watch you open this pillar box and watch you scan this box and fail to remove the contents of this box. (2) Did this observer after you departing the pillar box re-open this box with reserve box keys in their possession and find that the box still contained mail? (3) It is normal practice to place test letters in more than 1 box on a particular route and if so was there other test letters that have reached their destination. I would question this. (4) At what time was the test letter placed in the pillar box and at what time did this test letter arrive at the addressee. (5) Your collecting of this test letter only forms part of the journey to its final destination and could have been delayed at the sorting office outwith your control. (6) What system is in place for test letters when found in a pillar box are they isolated from the other mail, kept separate in your van and on return to your office are personally handed in to a manager or do they just go with all other mail to the bag tipping point? (7) Are there any other witnesses to this delay other than 1 observer ?
Questions that need to be satisfied for a reasonable belief to be appropriate.

[slinder123]

hope you keep your job but it sounds like you are one of the runners which is causing problems for those who do the job correctly let this be a warning

[Fatyud88]

Runner? I do my job properly thank you, I wouldn't jeopardise my job and do what they are stating.

[vanman90]

Maybe there saying he got round so quick by opening the box scanning the barcode and not emptying it to save time?

[Fatyud88]

I couldn't scan all three it that time. Not possible. But i haven't seen these times even after asking for them in two fact finding interviews for a run list of the pda, they havent provided them

[Lounge Lizard]

I am due a disciplinary for gross misconduct for wilful delay of mail. The alleged charge was an observation made on a postbox on my collection route. Alleging a test letter was not collected. After the first fact finding interview my rep made it clear' I could not be conducted on an isolated mistake'. They then went onto say three boxes were scanned in a minute space with a mile distance between all boxes accusing me of remote scanning.
I have asked for the run times of the pda twice, these were not shown to me.
The observation needed to be clarified by the manager who performed it. -this was not clarified.
I am now facing the hearing with no evidence made to me and my rep telling me they can dismiss you on reasonable belief/doubt. Surely this cannot be the employment law??

The letter inviting me in states the charge is for failing to collect the letter via the observation.
No where on the letter does it say I am being charged with remote scanning.

Thoughts and views please, don't feel supported enough by my rep

But might they have evidence that "three boxes were scanned in a minute space with a mile distance between all boxes" to suggest "remote scanning"?

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

What if you scanned the first box as one of the last things you did there before jumping in your vehicle, but you scanned the third box as one of the first things you did there after getting out of the vehicle?

The above scenario would reduce the times between those three scans in question. I don't do collections, so I have no idea how much time it would save.

[chrisj]

My view is that you have been set up - and there must have been a reason for such a move...

I might also hazard a guess that your local Rep has more (perhaps negative) information about the situation than he is letting on...

Moreover, you have not categorically denied any of the allegations put to you but you are talking about evidence and procedure; not good!

A 'test letter' not getting to the destination is not exactly an issue for a collection postie - it could have gone missing at any point... However, if a test letter is still in the Post Box after a collection, what are the chances that it is only the test letter that was missed or it was somehow stuck to a part of the post box - ???

It is good to support a fellow postie but one has to be pragmatic and realistic, sometimes.

* 3 boxes within a mile scanned in a minute? Are you also denying that? Or think the PDA has malfunctioned - exactly how?

** You were clearly struggling to make the time as you asked for help; so something was going to have to give, IMO.

*** Why bother with the collection duty if it is more hassle than it is worth?

We have an OT docket King who also does Collection at ours - and the way he goes on when he has to do OT and collection; one could be forgiven for thinking that he is obliged to do the OT or even the collection (he has not signed for - so not his schedule attendance anyway).

If you get off then, start to take things easy and work your hours and if you cannot fit in a Collection, drop the Collection duty! Good luck (regardless)!!

[Fatyud88]

In the fact finding interview I told them I scanned the box and if I missed the test letter which I didn't see one then I apologise. My rep said an isolated incident should be dealt with in a remedial way. Then they popped up with some times as another option. I have no choice to do a collection its part of my duty, a hybrid. All I can do is go in Tuesday and stand my ground. Say my peice explain that the hearing is about the observation and test letter and see what happens.