getting moaned at by DOM for not taking lapsing

[2pints]

Royal mail is already full of tools do we really need another?

[eastie]

There's a new IWT coming soon, if you say you can't complete then then it will be used to determine if you should be able to or not. If the figures say you should be able to lapse or complete then you take it or go down conduct code.

Our rep has been training on the IWT recently and says it's actually quite generous when it comes to mail count etc (he's done actual full mail counts and compared to the figures the IWT has given). The current IWT is the same, we used to have sheets up with the prep times it gave for each walk and it took most of us less.

Some pairs though are taking 6hrs per week more than their duties should take to complete.

Basically, for the first time ever Posties are going to have to meet a standard workrate. Saying you've worked your hours isn't enough if you've only done 35hrs work in your 39hrs. It's already happening in our office, people are being pulled in for under performing.

So what happens if like Wednesday I had 6 packet bags of parcels and the person next to me only had 2 packet bags. Are they saying that we should finish at the same time because of the mail figures, that's plain stupid

[Chelseablue]

All bout profit now , so b and h will go through the roof .

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

There's a new IWT coming soon, if you say you can't complete then then it will be used to determine if you should be able to or not. If the figures say you should be able to lapse or complete then you take it or go down conduct code.

Our rep has been training on the IWT recently and says it's actually quite generous when it comes to mail count etc (he's done actual full mail counts and compared to the figures the IWT has given). The current IWT is the same, we used to have sheets up with the prep times it gave for each walk and it took most of us less.

Some pairs though are taking 6hrs per week more than their duties should take to complete.

Basically, for the first time ever Posties are going to have to meet a standard workrate. Saying you've worked your hours isn't enough if you've only done 35hrs work in your 39hrs. It's already happening in our office, people are being pulled in for under performing.

So what happens if like Wednesday I had 6 packet bags of parcels and the person next to me only had 2 packet bags. Are they saying that we should finish at the same time because of the mail figures, that's plain stupid

Plus from what I gather, after all these years, their tool can only give a figure for the amount of sequenced mail and the call rate it creates. It cannot predict with any sort of accuracy about what D2D and manually sorted mail will do to the call rates, same for standard parcels.

Whole thing is just a big guesstimate, rather than hard facts.

Which is incredible for a company that has been around for over 350 years!

[Bernardson]

Surely the whole point of the have ure say was to put a lot of thought etc into it ? Does moya know we are all bein harassed into spending a cpl minutes rushing these forms!

I upset my DIM by tearing it up and binning it.
Be strong and act in solidarity

[OnAFlyer]

There's a new IWT coming soon, if you say you can't complete then then it will be used to determine if you should be able to or not. If the figures say you should be able to lapse or complete then you take it or go down conduct code.

Our rep has been training on the IWT recently and says it's actually quite generous when it comes to mail count etc (he's done actual full mail counts and compared to the figures the IWT has given). The current IWT is the same, we used to have sheets up with the prep times it gave for each walk and it took most of us less.

Some pairs though are taking 6hrs per week more than their duties should take to complete.

Basically, for the first time ever Posties are going to have to meet a standard workrate. Saying you've worked your hours isn't enough if you've only done 35hrs work in your 39hrs. It's already happening in our office, people are being pulled in for under performing.

So what happens if like Wednesday I had 6 packet bags of parcels and the person next to me only had 2 packet bags. Are they saying that we should finish at the same time because of the mail figures, that's plain stupid

Clearly if you had that many packets then it would be looked at on an individual basis. Call rate for letters from sequencing can already be calculated, and they add 10% onto that for loose mail.

You can all doubt me, you can say that a 1 minute test is all we'll have and there's not a thing RM can do about underperformance. Wrong, it's coming like it or not.

Do you really think a privatised company, under massive pressure from the regulator to increase efficiency (to which end they're so desperate they're paying people who take VR 3 months wages to sit at home) is going to just not bother doing anything when they know for a fact a lot of staff aren't efficient?

[postslippete]

Oh dear would that be the old fact finding interviews again to query why you are not performing at the required rate that Royal Mail expect you to work at??


The truth is (as everyone knows) is that different staff work at different rates. Even if we are all paid the same wage you cannot realistically expect a 60 year old to work as fast as someone half their age. And its not their fault that the job has changed either. In our office, you can count the number of staff under 30 on one hand - and yet with Royal Mail piling this extra lapsing as well as indoor work onto us - do they really expect us all to be running round like 18 year olds??

Lino's might use the silly little indoor timed prep test as a means of gauging individual performance, but if they did, I would invite them to come out on delivery with me in the van and test the duties properly. Because I have no doubt with the volume of packets, tracked, letters and specials that we have to deliver (using the trolleys that Royal Mail provided - which many staff don't use) that we will quite easily go over the time on our duties!

Now from a line managers perspective.....the gaffers know this as they have been taking out some of the loops on collapsed deliveries. So even when the new PDAs arrive and they have GPS tracking or whatever, the managers still know that if posties did the job properly, we would not need to lapse duties.

You know, i don't think it will happen, but it would be a far better Royal Mail if it did....


The idea of lapsing was that Royal Mail get value for money and that staff do not leave hours early before their schedule finish time. Now everyone knows that those who come in early or rushes round to get an early finish spoil it for everyone else. So why aren't Royal Mail managers punishing them by giving them the extra work for when they return to the office early to make up their hours??

Surely, its not difficult to police when staff are arriving back to the office and ensuring that they get a full day's work out of them?

[eastie]

problem is every day is different and we don't all take out 30 parcels each , so even if every walk is timed at 4 and a half hours there is such a discrepancy in parcel counts per walk

[POSTMAN]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter,i'm a faster a postman/prepper/sorter/wtfever than Teebs,who is not as good as Clash,who pisses over Fishtank,who is completley useless againt Stormproof,as for DGP1,he's seriously s**t hot and pisses over all of us.

[OnAFlyer]

The idea of lapsing was that Royal Mail get value for money and that staff do not leave hours early before their schedule finish time. Now everyone knows that those who come in early or rushes round to get an early finish spoil it for everyone else. So why aren't Royal Mail managers punishing them by giving them the extra work for when they return to the office early to make up their hours??

Surely, its not difficult to police when staff are arriving back to the office and ensuring that they get a full day's work out of them?

See that's the old argument, but it's complete shite. Tom does 39hrs work in 38hrs and you think he should get more, but Dick does 35hrs work in 39hrs and he should be left alone?

It's got f*ck all to do with people finishing early and everything to do with X amount of hours work coming in and more than those hours coming out.

[bogstandard]

the real problem is the duty planner and the information that has been agreed to go in to it.
the rep and the planner havepotentially skimmed over certain very saliant points in order to achieve a POETS day.

[fishtank]

See that's the old argument, but it's complete shite. Tom does 39hrs work in 38hrs and you think he should get more, but Dick does 35hrs work in 39hrs and he should be left alone?

It's got f*ck all to do with people finishing early and everything to do with X amount of hours work coming in and more than those hours coming out.

Your argument relies on everything being equal and it isn't, Items per core work hours only works if the job is uniform right across the board but every duty is different, every tray of mail is different and every day is different. How do you decide what 35hrs of work is?

The guy next to me lapses every day, finishes early and probably delivers more items than me so in theory he's more "efficient" than me but I could knock half an hour off his duty just by working at the same pace I do on my own duty and if you put him on mine he'd be screwed.
Who's working harder....me or him?

[OnAFlyer]

See that's the old argument, but it's complete shite. Tom does 39hrs work in 38hrs and you think he should get more, but Dick does 35hrs work in 39hrs and he should be left alone?

It's got f*ck all to do with people finishing early and everything to do with X amount of hours work coming in and more than those hours coming out.

Your argument relies on everything being equal and it isn't, Items per core work hours only works if the job is uniform right across the board but every duty is different, every tray of mail is different and every day is different. How do you decide what 35hrs of work is?

The guy next to me lapses every day, finishes early and probably delivers more items than me so in theory he's more "efficient" than me but I could knock half an hour off his duty just by working at the same pace I do on my own duty and if you put him on mine he'd be screwed.
Who's working harder....me or him?

I agree that local knowledge and common sense has to come into it. A couple of the walks in our office are much busier with packets than the others, so they take less lapsing and one stays off IPS to prep the walks.

Most of the walks take a very similar amount of time to deliver on average (I've done most of them), and apart from individually bad days then they pretty much should be done in a similar amount of time over a week. At the moment there is as much as 6-8hrs difference between one pair of walks and another over a week - and that's not people coming in early or running.

The problem is you need managers who manage, IMO our office is pretty good for that.

[redneck]

You worry that in the end the response to all this discrepancy between rounds and the ever increasing drive for so-called 'efficiency' (which is often a misused word by managers for simply justifying their own positions and being seen to be doing something) is that we will end up with a self employed franchised round set up that is no answer, but just a blunt instrument to reduce costs in an industry deemed, wrongly, to be in terminal decline.

The work to keep us going is out there, but our hierarchy seem far more concerned with wrecking morale by bearing down on workloads and playing workers off against another.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

See that's the old argument, but it's complete shite. Tom does 39hrs work in 38hrs and you think he should get more, but Dick does 35hrs work in 39hrs and he should be left alone?

It's not complete shite like most things in life its a lot more complicated than just black and white. If the Tom is 21 and does work at a faster than average pace then he may well get done earlier than someone else, is he really being punished if asked to do extra work in the hours remaining. Just as if dick is 65 and suffers from rheumatoid arthritis and can't walk or work at the same pace as an average person, is he being looked after if reasonable adjustments are being made, or if he is being paid overtime when he goes over.

Of course there are idiots that run round, and there are slackers that can make a 5 minute job last an hour, but that is nothing to do those who genuinely work at a reasonable pace, its poor management control, and bad management style that picks on the weaker members of a unit, and sadly its reinforced by colleagues who just want a quiet life.

It's got f*ck all to do with people finishing early and everything to do with X amount of hours work coming in and more than those hours coming out.

That's the problem, they plan for x work with Y workers, and then the Z hits the fan because people aren't machines we all have different capabilities, strengths, weakness and personalities. Good managers work with that and motivate people in a productive way. Bad managers use it in a poor way and people who aren't motivated or are fearful are less productive.