Am i in the right ?

[jetblack]

The manager knocks on your door within 4 hours of ringing in sick ? Its harassment - and out order IMO..... all things being equal of course.

That is - providing you haven't been taking the piss.

Cos then, well, it wouldn't be. I mean, if you'd just returned from a sickie having just reslated your roof - and been spotted doing so - then you couldn't really complain if the manager was "sceptical".

But, as I say, all things being equal, I'd regard that intrusion as not only out of order, but possibly against the law.

What law would that be breaking? A manager checking on the welfare of his staff by visiting them at home?

As I say, without due cause to suspect that the sick claim is fraudulent (based on historical precedence) I'd say it could be argued that the managers intrusion not only infringes the employees right to privacy - but that it is actually in breach of the rights laid out in EU directives on the individuals human rights (and rights to privacy).

A manager checking on the welfare of his/her staff ? You're having a laugh, surely

Not without due cause I'm afraid - cos then its harassment.

That blatantly doesn't apply for several reasons not least because the manager knocked on the door thus respecting his private home

If he hadn't been at home/there was no answer when the manager had called, what would have been the managers inference ? Was the manager able to see through the employees windows ?

Even if the manager had never even made contact with the employee upon visiting his home, then inferences could still have been made. That is what makes the visit an intrusion upon the employees privacy.

To make such a visit there would have to be (provable/demonstrable) cause for scepticism - and not just a claim that the manager was showing empathy for a brother in arms. Cos that, as we all know, doesn't wash.

We have 2g,3g,4g - adsl, cable, satellite - oh, and copper landlines - but the manager has to take the time to pop round ?

(edit - how could I forget, but we also have good old fashioned physical analogue mail )

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

The manager knocks on your door within 4 hours of ringing in sick ? Its harassment - and out order IMO..... all things being equal of course.

That is - providing you haven't been taking the piss.

Cos then, well, it wouldn't be. I mean, if you'd just returned from a sickie having just reslated your roof - and been spotted doing so - then you couldn't really complain if the manager was "sceptical".

But, as I say, all things being equal, I'd regard that intrusion as not only out of order, but possibly against the law.

What law would that be breaking? A manager checking on the welfare of his staff by visiting them at home?

As I say, without due cause to suspect that the sick claim is fraudulent (based on historical precedence) I'd say it could be argued that the managers intrusion not only infringes the employees right to privacy - but that it is actually in breach of the rights laid out in EU directives on the individuals human rights (and rights to privacy).

A manager checking on the welfare of his/her staff ? You're having a laugh, surely

Not without due cause I'm afraid - cos then its harassment.

That blatantly doesn't apply for several reasons not least because the manager knocked on the door thus respecting his private home

If he hadn't been at home/there was no answer when the manager had called, what would have been the managers inference ? Was the manager able to see through the employees windows ?

Even if the manager had never even made contact with the employee upon visiting his home, then inferences could still have been made. That is what makes the visit an intrusion upon the employees privacy.

To make such a visit there would have to be (provable/demonstrable) cause for scepticism - and not just a claim that the manager was showing empathy for a brother in arms. Cos that, as we all know, doesn't wash

By your logic then then even phoning the employee at home would be illegal as the same inferences could be made. There is nothing to back up what you are clearly making up. Knocking on an employees door is not a breach of their human rights you are talking completely rubbish

[jetblack]

By your logic then then even phoning the employee at home would be illegal as the same inferences could be made.

Please, ring me up, email me, send me a bitmessage, a text etc etc , send me a f..in letter - otherwise, unless you have due cause, stay the hell away from my house. Keep off my property.

Its pretty straightforward really.

[POSTMAN]

The manager is a cock,not a doctor and not a social worker.
He is not medically trained to go against a sick note and ask for him to come in on light duties.
He has not followed procedure end of!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Couple of things the rules say don't accuse people of being managers if they have a different viewpoint to you, and even if they were does it matter, if the view held is genuine then they should be allowed to express it, freedom to debate on here works both ways, if you want only to see people agreeing with you then resurrect PostmanChat, if you post on here then expect posters to have a different opinion.

Arnold Cheshire - what was the point of that statement about timings of ZX135 posts, does it really matter, and do you expect posties to only work the same hours as you do, in a 24 hour operation - or even a 16 hour one people will work different and longer or shorter hours than you. In essence stop stirring.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The new attendance procedure is fairly clear on visits and meetings:

Page 5 http://www.cwu.org/assets/_files/docume ... nce_Pr.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notifying absence and maintaining contact
• Employees will advise of their absence before the commencement of the shift in accordance with the arrangements set out for their office
• Discussion will cover the reason for absence, likely duration and anticipated return date and any support which Royal Mail may be able to offer
• The employee and manager should seek to agree an appropriate time and date for reviewing together all but very short absences
• Employees need to provide a self certificate for the first seven days of absence and a medical certificate for any absence over seven days
• The aim of maintaining contact during an absence is to encourage an early return to work wherever possible
• In the rare event that contact is not maintained following the expiry of a ‘Fit Note’, the manager should make reasonable efforts to make contact including sending contact letters by Special Delivery and First Class post. If the employee does not make contact, he or she will be given two days’ written notice before any suspension of sick pay.

Page 12

All sickness absences are assumed to be genuine and should be discussed between the employee and their manager on
return to work

So in my estimation a knock on the door on the first day of absence when the employee has made contact is outside the agreement and may provide enough grounds for a grievance. Whether the manager should be sacked or counselled is an entirely different matter, but I think counselling would in most cases be the usual outcome, no matter how ineffective it appears to be in RM.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://businessdatabase.indicator.co.uk ... /88/search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can you visit a sick employee at home?

Many employees assume that when they’re off sick their employer can’t make any attempt to contact them. But this isn’t true; you can even visit them at home provided you go about it the right way. So how is this done?

The sickness absence problem
Although sickness absence rates have fallen in recent years, the average employee in the private sector still has 6.4 days off work each year due to “illness”. Further research shows that, at any one time, 3% of the entire working population is away from work because of it. So it clearly remains a major headache for employers.

Solving the problem
Of course, tackling sickness absence - regardless of whether it’s short or long-term - can also be a problem. This isn’t helped by a myth which circulates amongst employees; some think that you’ve no right to contact them when they’re off sick. But this couldn’t be further from the truth.

A matter of good practice
Not only is it perfectly acceptable for you to remain in touch with an employee during any period of sickness absence, it’s considered “good management practice” to do so. This means you can ask them for regular updates on their health and likely return-to-work date, e.g. via a daily or weekly phone call, or by meeting with them.

An invasion of privacy?
Some employees are sceptical of this approach; they feel it’s a breach of their privacy. But the bottom line is that careful management demonstrates you’re a reasonable and supportive employer who takes their duty of care towards employees seriously (this will come in handy should you face a discrimination claim at tribunal). That said, keeping a close eye on things will also help to unearth any fraudulent sickness absence.

Getting the policy right
Outline the management approach you will take in a robust sickness absence policy (see The next step). It should state that all employees are expected to attend a return-to-work interview following any period of sickness absence. Also, reserve the right to request a home visit where any illness or condition is “long-term”; this is usually deemed to be five or more days’ absence.

Requesting a home visit
If you want to visit an employee at home, don’t turn up unannounced or outside reasonable hours. This could be viewed negatively by the tribunal, e.g. that you’re trying to harass or catch them out. So always drop them a line first suggesting a date and time and explain the purpose of the meeting, i.e. it’s to see: (1) how they are; (2) if there’s anything you can do to get them back to work sooner; and (3) if an occupational health referral is needed (see The next step).

Tip 1. It’s possible an employee will feel uncomfortable with a home visit. You can meet on neutral territory, e.g. a hotel, but remember that discussing health-related matters in a public place could breach their privacy, so do point this out.

Tip 2. If an employee refuses a home visit, you can’t demand that one takes place. But if their sickness absence becomes a capability issue and you’re considering dismissal, any reluctance to discuss their health will go in your favour.

An appointment should be made and an explanation given for the visit, e.g. it’s to see if you can do anything to help them get back to work sooner. Use our letter to do this; never turn up unannounced. An employee can refuse, but any reluctance to discuss their health can go against them if you need to dismiss later.

[postslippete]

Its only an opinion


But I don't like the way Royal Mail have been telling their managers how to deal with sick absences. We had a case where the DOM turned up at a postie's flat after he had rung in sick, thought that he didn't look that bad when he was stood there at the door and quite literally forced him to do 3 loops on the same day!!

Was he really qualified to make that decision?? Of course he wasn't and he had no right to force an ill member of staff back to work so soon.

I don't really believe a DOM is concerned about the welfare of his staff but more about maintaining the office budget to the extent of harassing staff to come back into work.