"The people who rush around like there is no tomorrow...

[fishtank]

Now the context of Bobs response and the general meeting was Ofcom are demanding that Royal Mail become more efficent before they step in to protect the USO from unfair competition. Bob said Ofcom do not use all the hours which members come in early it do not take their paid meal relief into account when they chalkenge Royal Mail on effiecncy

Perhaps it was not such a wise idea to encourage whole divisions to resist modernisation for 10 years, perhaps in hindsight that didn't make the area strong, it made us all just a bit weaker in the long run. As for Bob's comment, had he as Outdoor Sec and HQ in general taken bullying and harassment seriously 5 years ago perhaps at least some members wouldn't feel the need to run around like headless chickens, If the best of our working conditions have been shaped by the union then the union must also take the "credit" for providing the circumstances that encourage the worst. Scapegoating members might play well to a room full of reps but it gets us absolutely nowhere if you don't address the underlying reasons.

[rubberbond]

Now the context of Bobs response and the general meeting was Ofcom are demanding that Royal Mail become more efficent before they step in to protect the USO from unfair competition. Bob said Ofcom do not use all the hours which members come in early it do not take their paid meal relief into account when they chalkenge Royal Mail on effiecncy

Perhaps it was not such a wise idea to encourage whole divisions to resist modernisation for 10 years, perhaps in hindsight that didn't make the area strong, it made us all just a bit weaker in the long run. As for Bob's comment, had he as Outdoor Sec and HQ in general taken bullying and harassment seriously 5 years ago perhaps at least some members wouldn't feel the need to run around like headless chickens, If the best of our working conditions have been shaped by the union then the union must also take the "credit" for providing the circumstances that encourage the worst. Scapegoating members might play well to a room full of reps but it gets us absolutely nowhere if you don't address the underlying reasons.

If you acknowledge there is a problem,that problem then becomes yours to deal with and we wouldn't want that,would we? That's not what it is about. Oh no ,it is like having to sit next to the nutter on the bus,when there are no other seats.

[Martin Walsh]

Fish you do not want to believe all you hear on here ! London has seen 9 mail centres close in 20 years , all the stations close , RDCs and Vocs close , we have seen lots of delivery revisions we have our share who are over 100 BSi and over the upper decile on WIpWH the main now measurement for Royal Mail.

The difference is that for years they could not retain part timers in the capital and they still can't the nearer you go to London Airport in deliveries. So the employment model due to cost of living was mainly full time. We stand at 89% we will always be less efficient compared to an office who has a 50/50 split on part timers. Remember it was a national figure not an office one.

Now lets look at the items which cities generate more of tracked , parcels , PS and business mail which means those cities cross subsidise town and remote areas in order to keep the USO.

Now do we drive an hard bargain in most offices yes , lets face it if we rolled over like some do then god knows where the rest of the UK would be now.

So I would suggest we have seen massive amounts of change and efficiency and when whistl get to other areas and you suddenly lose 20% of your traffic its is very hard to be efficient without compulsory redundancies as we are getting to the bottom of the well in some areas in terms of those wanting to go on VR.

[fishtank]

We stand at 89% we will always be less efficient compared to an office who has a 50/50 split on part timers

Why?
If we accept that you have to have mostly full-time staff and if the delivery span is an enabler ( agreed by the union) why don't you just have less staff and longer deliveries? That would drive up your efficiency, might make a divisional rep unpopular though since you also really need to dump the 4 day weeks and 9 day fortnights but for the good of the collective and all that stuff...

[chrisj]

Now do we drive an hard bargain in most offices yes , lets face it if we rolled over like some do then god knows where the rest of the UK would be now.

The whole company will be more efficient, perhaps?
============================================================================

This is a lot more to do with RM being weak... Although they are not as weak as previously; with Privatisation and increased competition, and OFCOM and EU.

Just how do people that work part-time hours in the likes of Tesco and other companies survive in London? Delivery typically is a job you did (still do) in the morning to early afternoon; plenty of time to get another job or do something else - and that is the way a lot of people in London survive. Am sure there are people in London like other cities that just want a part-time job...

[borders]

maybe because traditionally the postman/women was the main breadwinner in the house.

[fishtank]

maybe because traditionally the postman/women was the main breadwinner in the house.

Only in London?

[borders]

traditionally as in the past , obviously today in most families 2 wages are needed . I would hazard a guess London is the most expensive.
p.s I live no where near London.

[clashcityrocker]

Now do we drive an hard bargain in most offices yes , lets face it if we rolled over like some do then god knows where the rest of the UK would be now.

How hard a bargain can you drive, given that it has to be in line with all national agreements?
Or do you have separate "national agreements" to adhere to.

The reality is - London has a recruitment problem. This is a historic problem. The cost of living mean p/t contracts are difficult to fill and retention is as hard as recruitment. So in order to ensure there are enough bums on seats and the duties are covered, RM has allowed these inefficiencies. As you say - the employment model is different and that is all.
Consequently the only "hard bargains" you drive are the ones RM allows you to.
All this hubris about the London Division is total bollocks. If your reps are so good then send them out into the sticks to show everyone how it should be done.
My guess is that when faced with the realities of negotiating within the confines of national agreements and away from their "employment model" , all these "super" reps would be no better than those that "roll over" to use your rather offensive term.
And what happens when you do have to negotiate in line with national agreements:
London has seen 9 mail centres close in 20 years , all the stations close , RDCs and Vocs close

Haven't saved the bricks and mortar. Haven't saved the jobs. Just "rolled over"

[chrisj]

I lived in London in the late 80s and 90s and R&R (recruitment and retention) was paid for most jobs as well as the London weighting but that was then when there was so much money washing about...

However, with an ever expanding Europe and a crippling recession, a lots people will be happy to work for Royal Mail nowadays - the pay rate is good, add recruitment and retention for part timers, especially on the Delivery side, then there should no be a problem for RM of London driving a hard bargain and/or holding the rest to a ransom.

The rot has set in but even hardliners are seeing that the status quo cannot be maintained! They have to get rid of excess staff and improve efficiency - so how best to do that?

One has to admit that the London crew appear to be strong and do stick together but some sort of semi-gloating from Dingo is out of order. People rolling over...

What is this about London generating a lot of income for RM - are we now talking like investment and merchant bankers and spivs in the City?

[Martin Walsh]

Mail Centres have closed due to DSA , Automation and the fact that work has declined.

The stations closed due to the building of PRDC and the fact that trains largely ceased.

There is no gloating but it is factual that we hold the line on issues more than some. In 2009 when the union said no deals and no geo route revisions to be agreed , well guess what many offices surrendered. London did not. In 2003 when the union got a no vote and people were doing deals on single daily delivery without a national agreement London did not and started an unofficial dispute which meant we got a national agreement for all.

Now we do have 89% full timers , we do have the highest number of improved attendances.

London does have 20% of the UKs priority services mail , over a quarter of tacked items , the most timed deliveries and growth in parcels which generate revenue and clearly is why competitors are attacking big cities and not areas where there is a small margin on revenue.

Sadly Royal Mail have over the years sold lots of buildings in London from huge sums to raise profits and we now have over a quarter of offices outside their postcode area.

We don't need lessons off un- informed people on how to do deals or what is needed. Especially ones withs chip shops on their shoulders.

[clashcityrocker]

We don't need lessons off uniformed people how to do deals or what is needed. Especially ones withs chip shops on their shoulders.

OOh that's me told then.
Apparently what this board needs is simply the pearls of wisdom of the upper echelons of the CWU. The views of the uniformed people .......

Well Dingo - you can have the board to yourself. I really am not interested any more.
And when I say I'm not coming back, unlike you I mean it.

[Chelseablue]

Uniformed ppl that's us!,

[wabbithunta]

Who's this dingo then, not a uniform (blue-shirt) bod then but an "Office wallah"?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Either way its an embarrassing statement from a senior rep.

If he meant uniformed then he is being discriminatory and thats not something I'd expect from A union supporter never mind an official.

If meant uninformed,then thats embarrassing from someone who should at least inform his own members, and hopefully other activists.


But I do agree with his unspoken sentiment that there is too much back biting, point scoring and put downs on RMC at the moment. Constructive criticism is to welcomed and enjoyed, sadly its missing on here sometimes.