losing our 9 day fortnites

[The_Wax_Man]

Oh I do love the 'It's going to happen because we say so, mails down etc etc'

What should have happened or maybe what the rep should/could have done.

Ask for information pertaining to the last 12 month work history of that Depot for all overtime, cover required for each Saturday/Monday and Tuesday.

This will tell you very clearly on how the D.O & business managed on those days including showing any seasonal variances.

Let's just say the information was to hand by RM and indeed it showed very little being paid extra on those days due to a reduced inbound work volume, then that is how the conversation should have gone. The members at the DO could have discussed it but would in fact have little to argue against it and maybe would have agreed to such moves to protect jobs.

Instead RM have provided no information other than 'This is going to happen'

When will they learn that transparency in the initial aspect can remove a lot of unnecessary steps in causing more stress / anguish to members.

So to the OP, maybe the rep can get hold of this information to share with you ?

[daveyeff]

there was a meeting today regarding changing our shift patterns. they are doing away with our 9 day fortnites and the 3 weeks on, one week off. their argument is there is not enough work on Monday Tuesdays and Saturdays to justify keeping them, and the model week dictates what we can and cannot have. they have give us 3 options, all of which entails us going back to a 5 day week. obviously none of us wants these options but they say it will mean job losses if we do not accept what is on offer. anyway a lad at the meeting said can he make a proposal of maintaining the status quo because nobody wants these options. the rep and a branch rep said no...we cant accept you're proposal because it means that 9 full time jobs will go if we keep our present shift patterns. the lad said he thought they were lying to get what they want. it looks like we are being given hobsons choice and worse, our union is on management side. also one lad said well if no-one votes for the options it would mean staying the same anyway...they said no...it would go through on a minority vote. any thoughts on this anyone...can we do anything?

It sounds as if your Unit is being stitched up by management and our union. I would imagine nothing has changed other than RM have now decided to minimise rotations and your Branch hasn't the back bone to support the members.

Why does it mean 9 full time jobs have to go? What has drastically changed?

You mention Branch Rep, do you mean area rep or branch secretary?

If the majority are dissatisfied contact your Divisional Reps immediately.

Just because your rep agrees with management, that doesn't mean the majority has to.

was told today that the 9 full time jobs will definitely go if we keep our current shift patterns. this is because the lack of work on Mondays Tuesdays and Saturdays will mean that full timers will have little or nothing to do during their indoor part of their day....what a load of f***ing bollox. its a total smokescreen. most of us don't believe it. but they are going round brainwashing some on an individual basis. we are emailing headquarters for advice. why would full time jobs go? not that I want to see ANY one lose their job, buts its always been last in first out. the branch are saying the same as the rep, which seems to add confirmation to it being bullshit.....what do they know about our office? they are never there and know f**k all about what we get on a daily basis.

[chrisj]

Isn't it a bit selfish to want 'last in, first to go' just because you do not want to work like the majority of the postal service. Monday to Saturday every week should is the norm and you should have been grateful to have enjoyed this 9 day fortnights.

How come you are so sure that there is enough Indoor work when mail volumes are dropping and you folks are on longer hours than the rest of us. RM wants short of full time staff - simple! They can keep FT and then you find yourselves prepping 3 or 4 walks or doing 2 or more hours on IPS???

The other thing is that absence in a 9-day fortnight can be hard to cover - very expensive! I bet that it does provide jobs for the boys though. How many of your posties actually come back to work during what is supposed to be a long break after the fortnight?

I think a change of mindset is needed and you should all be glad to have a job even if it means working from Monday to Saturday like most.

I really do not think you will win this but good luck - 'he who dare wins'...

[clashcityrocker]

The branch are saying the same as the rep, which seems to add confirmation to it being bullshit.....what do they know about our office? they are never there and know f**k all about what we get on a daily basis.

Or they both know what they are talking about.
I think you will find that your Area Rep will be given details of your office's traffic, both daily and year on year.
They might share that information with others at your Branch.

What times do people finish on the days in question?
Do you have the same indoor hours available as on the busier days?

It has never been last in first out in RM.

[hatetheboss]

What Are the outdoor hours for your 9 day fortnights and are they town or rural?

[daveyeff]

What Are the outdoor hours for your 9 day fortnights and are they town or rural?

town..leave office at 9.35...10 mins conveyance/park up. get bags out of van....first letter.... 9.45..last letter 14.30...10mins return to office/pouch off.....last 20 mins break 3.00 finish....most days we go over our time.

[daveyeff]

The branch are saying the same as the rep, which seems to add confirmation to it being bullshit.....what do they know about our office? they are never there and know f**k all about what we get on a daily basis.

Or they both know what they are talking about.
I think you will find that your Area Rep will be given details of your office's traffic, both daily and year on year.
They might share that information with others at your Branch.

What times do people finish on the days in question?
Do you have the same indoor hours available as on the busier days?

It has never been last in first out in RM.

it is when it comes to redundancies...at least that's the way we've always known it. how can you expect to be kicked out the door with 25 yrs in and someone with 3 yrs in keeps theirs?....the branch may know of the traffic figures...but who says they are true? its RMs figures..they tell us each sequenced tray contains up to 250 items of mail yet we count them practically daily...there is nearly always over 350 in them. so that's their crap exposed.... the only day people finish sharp is Tuesday....unless we have 5 or 6 sets of d2d. then its double sets on that day. we got over most days and there is overtime booked EVERY WEEK.

[hatetheboss]

What Are the outdoor hours for your 9 day fortnights and are they town or rural?

town..leave office at 9.35...10 mins conveyance/park up. get bags out of van....first letter.... 9.45..last letter 14.30...10mins return to office/pouch off.....last 20 mins break 3.00 finish....most days we go over our time.

Why don't you suggest due to you finishing late most days this compensates for the lack of indoor work and you start later e.g
Depart 9:35 finish 3:30 you would then start 30 mins later, reducing indoor time, your last letter would meet the 3:00 deadline and you get to keep your 9 day fortnights. . Obviously this depends on what indoor hours are needed

[clashcityrocker]

it is when it comes to redundancies...at least that's the way we've always known it. how can you expect to be kicked out the door with 25 yrs in and someone with 3 yrs in keeps theirs?....the branch may know of the traffic figures...but who says they are true? its RMs figures..they tell us each sequenced tray contains up to 250 items of mail yet we count them practically daily...there is nearly always over 350 in them. so that's their crap exposed.... the only day people finish sharp is Tuesday....unless we have 5 or 6 sets of d2d. then its double sets on that day. we got over most days and there is overtime booked EVERY WEEK.

Given that we have never had compulsory redundancies, how has it been first in last out?
Secondly, your sequenced trays are counted by the machines. The accuracy of those figures is regularly checked.
The trays are counted using an Average Container Fill. (ACF) Counting individual trays is therefore pointless. Where does the time come from for you to be counting these trays practically daily?

[feduppostie]

to be fair we also have counted mail and found figures to be down on average about 80 letters a box

[daveyeff]

Isn't it a bit selfish to want 'last in, first to go' just because you do not want to work like the majority of the postal service. Monday to Saturday every week should is the norm and you should have been grateful to have enjoyed this 9 day fortnights.

How come you are so sure that there is enough Indoor work when mail volumes are dropping and you folks are on longer hours than the rest of us. RM wants short of full time staff - simple! They can keep FT and then you find yourselves prepping 3 or 4 walks or doing 2 or more hours on IPS???

The other thing is that absence in a 9-day fortnight can be hard to cover - very expensive! I bet that it does provide jobs for the boys though. How many of your posties actually come back to work during what is supposed to be a long break after the fortnight?

I think a change of mindset is needed and you should all be glad to have a job even if it means working from Monday to Saturday like most.

I really do not think you will win this but good luck - 'he who dare wins'...

I did not say I 'wanted' last in first out.!! that's just the way we've always known it to be. and that is the normal practice in most jobs. I don't want to see ANYONE lose their jobs. as for not wanting to work like the majority of RM,,,,no we don't... this is the only good thing to come out of that pile of shite deal in 2010 so obviously we want to keep it. as for being glad to have a job....will you be glad when they get their own way and drop us to minimum wage....oh yeah of course!! I don't mind...ive got a job haven't I.

[daveyeff]

it is when it comes to redundancies...at least that's the way we've always known it. how can you expect to be kicked out the door with 25 yrs in and someone with 3 yrs in keeps theirs?....the branch may know of the traffic figures...but who says they are true? its RMs figures..they tell us each sequenced tray contains up to 250 items of mail yet we count them practically daily...there is nearly always over 350 in them. so that's their crap exposed.... the only day people finish sharp is Tuesday....unless we have 5 or 6 sets of d2d. then its double sets on that day. we got over most days and there is overtime booked EVERY WEEK.

Given that we have never had compulsory redundancies, how has it been first in last out?
Secondly, your sequenced trays are counted by the machines. The accuracy of those figures is regularly checked.
The trays are counted using an Average Container Fill. (ACF) Counting individual trays is therefore pointless. Where does the time come from for you to be counting these trays practically daily?

easy...you count them as you are putting them in you're frame..no extra time needed at all. acf is exactly what it says AVERAGE. none of the trays are THEIR average as we have found out....conveniently their average is 250 per tray.... so when a yorkie comes in, every 4 trays is a thousand. by our counts we have almost 1400....no wonder they can say the mail is down. the first in last out is a normal practice in most industries. whenever there has been redundancies in our industry its nearly always been through an agreed vr package.

[daveyeff]

to be fair we also have counted mail and found figures to be down on average about 80 letters a box

well we havent

[daveyeff]

What Are the outdoor hours for your 9 day fortnights and are they town or rural?

town..leave office at 9.35...10 mins conveyance/park up. get bags out of van....first letter.... 9.45..last letter 14.30...10mins return to office/pouch off.....last 20 mins break 3.00 finish....most days we go over our time.

Why don't you suggest due to you finishing late most days this compensates for the lack of indoor work and you start later e.g
Depart 9:35 finish 3:30 you would then start 30 mins later, reducing indoor time, your last letter would meet the 3:00 deadline and you get to keep your 9 day fortnights. . Obviously this depends on what indoor hours are needed

I will mention it but they will have an answer,,simply because they don't want us to have them anymore. they've turned us at every corner,,,having an answer to every thing we say. for example, it was suggested that we work longer on the wed thurs and fri, to make up for the 'supposed' slack Mondays tues and sats....their answer was no because that would mean going over 9 hours on the heavy days which would mean we are entitled to book an extra 10 mins break for going over 9 hours. and this would cost the company extra. a negative solution as they said.

[chrisj]

I do not think Royal Mail are simply going to kick people out of the door: the only real way (without going to tribunals) to get rid of people is to offer then voluntary redundancies... And the people that will find such a deal attractive are likely going to be very long-term, older and most likely full time employees.

To be honest, RM will not even offer Voluntary Redundancies just because you folks do not want to work a particular shift pattern: they will simply use Executive Action - and the Union will support them (it will not even get that far judging by what your Branch is proposing).

This is not like being dropped to minimum wage - just a shift pattern change. Funny enough, we have some 20 hours folks here being made to come in 3 or 4 or 5 days a week doing different shifts; I bet they will swap with you any day...

So you do not like the 2010 Agreement - well what can I say?