2015 Business plans?

[worktotime]

Just to add, if you have no rep I would imagine your DOM is doing this without agreement. Flag it up immediately, if no joy with area, get hold of branch secretary.

we have contacted the secretary and all he said is you need to get in touch with xxxx area rep. so talk about banging your head against a brick wall , we are one of the offices in the leaked doc on here south west Yorkshire headcount. so any ideas.

I can only assume you've no rep in your unit.

I would go back to your area rep preferably by email and copy in your branch secretary, divisional reps and branch chair. Explain in full your concern and insist that they now act.

If you get no reply, you email again and again. Do not allow them to use ignorance to their advantage.

will do ,

[Son Of God]

During this revision process we will have everything to hand, tools, training and national agreements to ensure we get a revision done that benefits our members. The only problem I see is the majority unit reps won't insist on everything being done as it should and before you know it they will slip into doing what ever is easiest.

A good revision can be had if the rep is fully prepared to see everything through and refuse to sign off any phase unless 100% happy.

Sorry. Can't agree with that. We had a rep who refused to sign anything off. Revision was a joke but when push came to shove we had union high-ups down and they sold us down the river. Nobody high up seems prepared to do anything to disturb the cozy relationship

If this be the case then its up to the rep and the membership to challenge those above also. Just because they are supposed to fighting our corner, as you are obviously aware that doesn't mean they always do. They need to be exposed and made accountable by what ever means possible. Too many appear to have got too comfy in their positions and do as little as possible to get by. This has got to be challenged by the membership before its all too late.

[dvbuk55]

This has got to be challenged by the membership before its all too late.

Wonder if you could get your Dad to give a helping hand because to move those Muppets at the top and the sycophantic underlings it may need divine intervention.

[fishtank]

This has got to be challenged by the membership before its all too late.

That's where the problem lies, The structure of the union is such that there is no oversight or accountability from above so everything has to be done by the membership.

Nice in theory but in practice moving useless old farts from entrenched positions has become so difficult that whole groups of the membership have become disengaged, apathetic and the end result is members give up fighting anything at local level or worse, withdraw from the union completely.

Of course we need to keep that grass roots accountability but it must come with more oversight from above, It's both possible and advantagous to have both a bottom up and top down structure because it provides dual accountability but HQ either can't be arsed or doesn't want to rock that ever so comfy boat just in case one or two of them fall out.

[Son Of God]

This has got to be challenged by the membership before its all too late.

That's where the problem lies, The structure of the union is such that there is no oversight or accountability from above so everything has to be done by the membership.

Nice in theory but in practice moving useless old farts from entrenched positions has become so difficult that whole groups of the membership have become disengaged, apathetic and the end result is members give up fighting anything at local level or worse, withdraw from the union completely.

Of course we need to keep that grass roots accountability but it must come with more oversight from above, It's both possible and advantagous to have both a bottom up and top down structure because it provides dual accountability but HQ either can't be arsed or doesn't want to rock that ever so comfy boat just in case one or two of them fall out.

Agree.

However, we can cannot heavily influence the top directly but we can collectively send big enough waves from the the bottom.

[dvbuk55]

Agree. However, we can cannot heavily influence the top directly but we can collectively send big enough waves from the the bottom.

Just how close to the bottom are we talking about? The problem is that the CWU goes down as far as branch and that is as far as it goes, below that is the meal ticket and cannon fodder members. Branch, Area Reps and Div Reps are not going to make waves and if anything happens below that it's going nowhere.

[Son Of God]

Agree. However, we can cannot heavily influence the top directly but we can collectively send big enough waves from the the bottom.

Just how close to the bottom are we talking about? The problem is that the CWU goes down as far as branch and that is as far as it goes, below that is the meal ticket and cannon fodder members. Branch, Area Reps and Div Reps are not going to make waves and if anything happens below that it's going nowhere.

I do not agree.

A unit rep alone can influence positions above by challenging and questioning their wrong doings. You get several unit reps in the same branch area doing the same, those above start to change their approach which in turn influences above.

[Martin Walsh]

Maybe it is the Division I am in but we don't recognise some of the horror stories some come on here with.

As soon as Bob Gibson said we should not go past stage 1 we emailed the directors , the area reps contacted their local reps and we communicated to the members.

it really is not difficult. it's about collective responsibility. it does not matter in the least what structure you have if the local rep is not supported by the members it won't work and if the local rep is not supported by the area rep it will fail.

If you have no agreement to a revision in your office then get your local rep , area rep or divisional rep to get involved.

Now we still have revisions outstanding from BT2000 because we don't want a bad deal for the members we want the right deal. Ask Royal Mail if they think we are in their pockets or sucking up to them ? It is laughable when I read some of the posts on here ! Meanwhile in the real world the CWU have negotiated a 3 year pay deal whilst others in similar industries have not , we have no compulsory redundancies when sadly others are seeing this more and more a reality , we have no zero hour contracts when this is the industry norm , we have no contracting out f our work to a cheaper workforce just look at the BT section of our union to see how much work has been contract out , We have no franchising of delivery routes or Mail centres something which Royal Mail was exploring , we have good terms and conditions , good legal rights , yet according to this site the CWU are the worse thing since slice bread.

Fact is without the CWU many on here would really have something to moan about.

it's not hard to say No to management , some of us do it everyday , some on here should start saying it rather than blaming everyone else. The union starts in the workplace that was what I was taught as a local rep not at 150 the broadway.

That's why some get a better deal , cause they don't accept the first thing management says.

[dvbuk55]

That's why some get a better deal , cause they don't accept the first thing management says.

Now there's a lesson you could teach the negotiators dingo, because the first thing management say is exactly what's adopted by the next agreement. Really dingo if you think the union operates efficiently outside of London you need to get out more.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk I have been to move offices outside London then yourself and seen good and bad organisation. You however live your live through Royal Mail chat without establishing if such posts are accurate !!!

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk I have been to move offices outside London then yourself and seen good and bad organisation. You however live your live through Royal Mail chat without establishing if such posts are accurate !!!

It isn't just me though dingo there are many posters on here who suffer identical mismanagement of union affairs, who ask but don't receive assistance from either HQ or local branch offices. You are fortunate in having a strong unionised workforce but outside of large conurbations with a Mail Centre small offices are swallowed up by voracious management. I don't blame you for not knocking the organisation you belong to because you must be on a nice little earner without any work involved and I would suppose your position is replicated time after time across the land. You don't like criticism of the hierarchy, you think the sun shines out of their backside, whereas many of us think they talk out of it.

[Son Of God]

Dvbuk I have been to move offices outside London then yourself and seen good and bad organisation. You however live your live through Royal Mail chat without establishing if such posts are accurate !!!

It isn't just me though dingo there are many posters on here who suffer identical mismanagement of union affairs, who ask but don't receive assistance from either HQ or local branch offices. You are fortunate in having a strong unionised workforce but outside of large conurbations with a Mail Centre small offices are swallowed up by voracious management. I don't blame you for not knocking the organisation you belong to because you must be on a nice little earner without any work involved and I would suppose your position is replicated time after time across the land. You don't like criticism of the hierarchy, you think the sun shines out of their backside, whereas many of us think they talk out of it.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk unlike you I just don't critcise the leadership behind the safety of a key board and not being identified. I do it face to face and I do it via conference and briefings and communications.

But when something happens in my area of authority I don't blame someone else I deal with it that's what the union is about. The CWU unlike any other UK trade union has the right to have a rep in every work place who has the legal right to be consulted on any change ! This is written into an agreement , yet we seem to have loads of posters who are reps on here who say that's not happening and it's the fault of the area rep , Divisiinsl rep or someone else at CWU HQs.

That's is simply untrue. There is no point having a local rep structure If the first thing you do is accept what management are doing and then blame someone above.

Every Divisional Rep has too meet the IR manager each month to review every disagreement in their division. There is no such thing as a Unlatural disagreement anymore taken out by one side and ingnored. If one side registers a disagreement it is raised to the next level and reviewed by the Divisional Rep and IR manager to ensure timescales are kept too and that no executive has taken place.

In the local office the rep has never had a stronger postion , he has a legal right to disagree. No doubt many will come on here and blame the area rep. The reality is when a rep volunteers for any postion you have to step up to the plate. Support should be there for him or her that is a given but the role of the local rep is to represent the members in their office.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk unlike you I just don't critcise the leadership behind the safety of a key board and not being identified. I do it face to face and I do it via conference and briefings and communications.

But when something happens in my area of authority I don't blame someone else I deal with it that's what the union is about. The CWU unlike any other UK trade union has the right to have a rep in every work place who has the legal right to be consulted on any change ! This is written into an agreement , yet we seem to have loads of posters who are reps on here who say that's not happening and it's the fault of the area rep , Divisiinsl rep or someone else at CWU HQs.

That's is simply untrue. There is no point having a local rep structure If the first thing you do is accept what management are doing and then blame someone above.

Every Divisional Rep has too meet the IR manager each month to review every disagreement in their division. There is no such thing as a Unlatural disagreement anymore taken out by one side and ingnored. If one side registers a disagreement it is raised to the next level and reviewed by the Divisional Rep and IR manager to ensure timescales are kept too and that no executive has taken place.

In the local office the rep has never had a stronger postion , he has a legal right to disagree. No doubt many will come on here and blame the area rep. The reality is when a rep volunteers for any postion you have to step up to the plate. Support should be there for him or her that is a given but the role of the local rep is to represent the members in their office.

There you go again dingo, wandering along the yellow brick road, everything in the garden's rosy, the union works as it should, everyone above the unit rep is beyond reproach, the agreements are in place and yet they aren't adhered to. I should remind you dingo that a unit rep also has a job to do for which he is paid by RM at the appropriate level whereas full time release union bods are paid a higher rate and do no work and yet the unit rep is called to account and the Area and Div Reps are like dinosaur sh1t, it does exist fossilized but is so rarely seen at shop floor level as to be almost a myth.

The CWU is financed by the membership but they seem to think it is to finance them to maintain their lifestyle and not to put all things aside but the representation of the members.

[fishtank]

I don't think you really get it dingo, If the union continues to allow poor accountability and a shambolic communication structure to isolate local reps as it has been doing for years there can only be one outcome.

Good reps will walk away as they have been doing in my area since 2010, they will be replaced by poor or inexperienced reps or no rep at all and because there is little accountability or even help from above offices will get screwed over. If you think that makes for a stronger union you're deluding yourself.

According to you the union begins and ends with the local rep and members, that's fine with me, I can handle that and to be honest my members don't seem to have a problem with their local representation but maybe you could explain to my members where their subs are going because that's the question they are asking me..more and more often these days.