Job & Done & Ghosting?

[Dorset Plodder]

I notice you're MC/Processing Conman. Did you transfer there from Deliveries? If you didn't I wouldn't presume to judge Delivery Staff on their performance. And if you did then I'm sure you're well aware of the king of crap that goes on in most DOs on a Daily Recurring Basis.

i done a walk for 8 years ,,,,,,,,,, an hour or more at home for breakfast every morning ,,,,,,then back for a ten minute 2nd delivery in the car
and on saturdays back in the house for 9am
others dragged it out for extended ,,or were too slow , lazy or thick to complete on time
so they were paid more than me,,,,,,,,,sometimes it pays to be incompetent
although it did pay to get 3 hours a day for half a merge and still finish 1 and a half walks before your docket started

[/quote]
At least you have spent some time pounding the streets Conman However I take it this was some time ago as You mention 2nd Deliveries. Deliveries have changed so much over the last couple of years you probably wouldn't recognise it. I too remember talking to Old Posties telling me they went out with 2 bags...Bust, and could complete their duty come back, do another Duty on OT, and still be finished early!

Those days have gone my friend. It is now a relentless grind day after day, with what we might now consider and easy day still busier than it ever was! TBH the Duties we now consider "Easy" are probably just the right size. It's all the other Duties that are too long! They're normally being done by PTers (who are keen for the extra hours0 or the Office "Nice Guys" (who don't have the confidence or knowledge to argue the point)!

[hampshireman]

It may be poor management etc but as I said it's not fraud and not illegal. I didn't say it's a good thing just pointing out that in certain circumstances ghost over time happens quite legally and not fraudulently

Well if it came to hey lads hey it is fraudulent and therefore illegal. Because a manager says it's OK does not make it so, it's rather like speeding you know it's 30 mph but you think it's OK to do 36 until you're caught speeding. If someone books an hour over their time but actually doesn't work that hour is that OK? If it is why have people been sacked for it?

It's only fraud if the overtime is obtained by deception ie going out doing delivery and after you get back telling dom it took say 5 hours but you only worked 3

It's not deception when before you go out you say to dom you are willing to do the extra work but you want paid hours ot for it. There is no devotion therefore no fraud committed

Understand what you are saying... but maybe I miss something . The point is about doing / starting overtime in duty time?

Surely ; that is a no no.

Negotiating that you will do XXXX overtime for XXX hrs pay is a different issue.

I have been given/paid 8 hrs for 2hrs work ; because the Mgmt were desperate at 15:00 .
Did I accept (of course I did).

Do I think you should work all your paid hours before overtime (of course I do)

[dvbuk55]

You can understand why RM was eager to do away with overtime rates when the overtime was being done within the ordinary duty span.

[arnold cheshire]

You can understand why RM was eager to do away with overtime rates when the overtime was being done within the ordinary duty span.

when did RM do away with overtime rates ?

[dvbuk55]

You can understand why RM was eager to do away with overtime rates when the overtime was being done within the ordinary duty span.

when did RM do away with overtime rates ?

It must be more than 10 years ago when we used to be paid time and a half and then double time. I remember working the 41 or 42 hours as it was then by say 10.30 on Friday and thereafter it was time and a half and all day Saturday. Bearing in mind we used to start work at five and all the IPS and tipping bags was done by hand and we worked a 6 day week, it was quite a lucrative earner. As far as I know the net gain over a normal hours pay now is about 90p and goes DOWN after 10 hours - brilliant tactics by the CWU.

[postmandick]

well the only way RM is going to stop all the above is to introduce 'clocking in-out' and you get paid the hours you work........ simple

happy new year

PS: my DO lost a manager and two posties to fraudulently claiming O/T and still they do it ....... dull or what

[dvbuk55]

well the only way RM is going to stop all the above is to introduce 'clocking in-out' and you get paid the hours you work........ simple

happy new year

PS: my DO lost a manager and two posties to fraudulently claiming O/T and still they do it ....... dull or what

Well there's the point really it doesn't have to be a legality it just needs to get you the sack regardless of the DOMs attitude being lax.

[terry2972]

Whos going to do the overtime then? If no incentive?

[dvbuk55]

Whos going to do the overtime then? If no incentive?

Either the DOM, LINO or new staff they need to take on to cover the excess work, thus doing away with overtime for hours not worked.

[janitor]

As I said earlier this will come to an end when they introduce zero hour contracts, which won't be long if they haven't already started. As everyone will be out for every hour they can get. Can't wait to see how dingo puts a positive spin on that one.

[dvbuk55]

As I said earlier this will come to an end when they introduce zero hour contracts, which won't be long if they haven't already started. As everyone will be out for every hour they can get. Can't wait to see how dingo puts a positive spin on that one.

Easy, the usual jargon followed by "You don't know what it's like to negotiate at a high level in a difficult commercial market and we are protecting fulltime jobs" - of course he's quite right in that one respect but the full time jobs they are protecting are their own.

[clashcityrocker]

As I said earlier this will come to an end when they introduce zero hour contracts, .

No. What they will do is introduce performance standards.
You have x amount of mail.
It will take you x amount of indoor hours to prepare it.
It will take you x amount of time to deliver.

And if you can't do it you will be out of a job.

[janitor]

As I said earlier this will come to an end when they introduce zero hour contracts, which won't be long if they haven't already started. As everyone will be out for every hour they can get. Can't wait to see how dingo puts a positive spin on that one.

Royal Mail have stated they would never use zero hour contracts, so they introduced a 1 hour contract, this was met with vitriolic reception and they changed the policy to minimum employment of 8 hour contracts (in the guise of Saturday jobs), so I now believe we have 8, 20, 25 and 30 hour contracts, no one gets a 39 hour contract in our region, although some Part Timers have been granted 39 hour contracts in our office after being on 25 hour contracts for over a year.

It doesn't matter what RM have stated, they have gone back on more agreements, than most people have had hot dinners. If zero hour contracts seems the way to go they will get it, and their lap dogs, the CWU will convince the membership its in their best interest We once had a DSM stand up in a work time learning, and tell us he didn't care what agreements we had, agreements don't last for ever, things change and agreements become null and void.

[chrisj]

Unfortunately, some OT ghosting or starting OT within contractual time is far more beneficial to RM than employing more staff.

As long as you have members ready to the the ghosting or any sort of OT then the practice will continue but as those that have been in the job long knows, the opportunities and rewards are reducing year on year.

Keeping your staff base and using OT to complete gives RM more flexibility when the mail drops down and for future revisions... And we shall have more and more revisions not just because it is necessary to be more efficient and profitable, but OFCOM and competitors will not stop banging on about it.

I know dvbuk does not deliver mail but it is hard to find people starting OT after 2.30pm, moreover, during winter months doing extra 2 hours will be done in the dark: customers do not like, posties do not like and are we really supposed to be delivering letters after 3.30pm?

The only aspect of ghosting that is an issue is those of very easy rounds that everyone knows but nothing gets done about it. Someone coming in early and rushing around on saturday to still be able to watch a match a 3pm needs to be cut some slack.

Long-term absence/sickness is big pain to cover and the usual ad-hoc Saturday absence is also a headache. Lets give ghosters and managers a bit of a break!

[dvbuk55]

Unfortunately, some OT ghosting or starting OT within contractual time is far more beneficial to RM than employing more staff.

As long as you have members ready to the the ghosting or any sort of OT then the practice will continue but as those that have been in the job long knows, the opportunities and rewards are reducing year on year.

Keeping your staff base and using OT to complete gives RM more flexibility when the mail drops down and for future revisions... And we shall have more and more revisions not just because it is necessary to be more efficient and profitable, but OFCOM and competitors will not stop banging on about it.

I know dvbuk does not deliver mail but it is hard to find people starting OT after 2.30pm, moreover, during winter months doing extra 2 hours will be done in the dark: customers do not like, posties do not like and are we really supposed to be delivering letters after 3.30pm?

The only aspect of ghosting that is an issue is those of very easy rounds that everyone knows but nothing gets done about it. Someone coming in early and rushing around on saturday to still be able to watch a match a 3pm needs to be cut some slack.

Long-term absence/sickness is big pain to cover and the usual ad-hoc Saturday absence is also a headache. Lets give ghosters and managers a bit of a break!

If people stopped doing it what would be the solution to lapsed and cut off work. The solution of ghosting has gone on because it is a simple solution but expensive when hours worked is grossly inflated by the pay and actually shows a decrease in productivity for hours worked/paid.