Job & Done & Ghosting?

[clashcityrocker]

but regardless of being against a national agreement it still is not fraud. Fraud is obtaining money etc by deception and getting the ok from the dom before had means no deception has taken place

Or you and the DOM have colluded to commit fraud ......

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

but regardless of being against a national agreement it still is not fraud. Fraud is obtaining money etc by deception and getting the ok from the dom before had means no deception has taken place

Or you and the DOM have colluded to commit fraud ......

It's not collusion to commit fraud either the postie has not deceived anyone

[dvbuk55]

Does anyone know the unions stance on this matter, I don't personally but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't sanction being paid for the same hours twice nor for falsifying a claim for hours not worked regardless of who thought it was OK. I'm surprised any DOM would take the risk of having his managerial skills questioned and have the chance of being included in a case for a fraudulent claim that he supposedly sanctioned: I bet he would be as slippery as a greased pole if it came down to it. As for the postie not deceiving anyone, I would remind the poster that his employer is Royal Mail and not the DOM, so I'd ask Moyas advice next time anyone thinks of overbooking OT and see if she thinks it's OK: it may be she and the DOM and the postie have differing opinions. Perhaps I should drop her a line now I'm retired to see if there is an agreed procedure.

[Dorset Plodder]

at the end of the day some people like to drag the job out , keep customers waiting for mail and finish late often doing unpaid overtime at the end of thier duty
others like to just get on with it ,get the job done and get home
managers often dont bother them because ,these postmen provide an efficent service to the customers ,,keeping them happy
this pleases royal mail and thats what its all about

I notice you're MC/Processing Conman. Did you transfer there from Deliveries? If you didn't I wouldn't presume to judge Delivery Staff on their performance. And if you did then I'm sure you're well aware of the king of crap that goes on in most DOs on a Daily Recurring Basis.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Does anyone know the unions stance on this matter, I don't personally but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't sanction being paid for the same hours twice nor for falsifying a claim for hours not worked regardless of who thought it was OK. I'm surprised any DOM would take the risk of having his managerial skills questioned and have the chance of being included in a case for a fraudulent claim that he supposedly sanctioned: I bet he would be as slippery as a greased pole if it came down to it. As for the postie not deceiving anyone, I would remind the poster that his employer is Royal Mail and not the DOM, so I'd ask Moyas advice next time anyone thinks of overbooking OT and see if she thinks it's OK: it may be she and the DOM and the postie have differing opinions. Perhaps I should drop her a line now I'm retired to see if there is an agreed procedure.

While your at it you should also ask her for the registrations of every van that's insured by Royal Mail and what vans have in date mots as your logic could be put to that as well. You only have the doms word that both these things are covered as well

By the way unions stance on this is a big no no, just to be clear I am against it as well but I don't like people bandying about terms like fraud etc when in certain circumstances there is no fraud being committed it's false information and people following the bad advice may end up getting themselves into trouble

[dvbuk55]

By the way unions stance on this is a big no no, just to be clear I am against it as well but I don't like people bandying about terms like fraud etc when in certain circumstances there is no fraud being committed it's false information and people following the bad advice may end up getting themselves into trouble

I'd be interested to know what those circumstances are. People can only get in trouble by booking more hours than they've worked. As for the vehicles that's not really relevant, but if there are any doubts ask for it to be put in writing and in that same vein ask for the DOM to put in writing you can book more hours than you've worked, now in those circumstances you would be covered - as for word of mouth, remember DOM speaks with forked tongue

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

By the way unions stance on this is a big no no, just to be clear I am against it as well but I don't like people bandying about terms like fraud etc when in certain circumstances there is no fraud being committed it's false information and people following the bad advice may end up getting themselves into trouble

I'd be interested to know what those circumstances are. People can only get in trouble by booking more hours than they've worked. As for the vehicles that's not really relevant, but if there are any doubts ask for it to be put in writing and in that same vein ask for the DOM to put in writing you can book more hours than you've worked, now in those circumstances you would be covered - as for word of mouth, remember DOM speaks with forked tongue

The circumstance has already been mentioned, dom looking for work to be covered on ot, no one wants it but a postie says i will do those 3 hours of work if you pay me 5, if agreed before hand then the postie has not committed fraud in any way whatsoever

[dvbuk55]

By the way unions stance on this is a big no no, just to be clear I am against it as well but I don't like people bandying about terms like fraud etc when in certain circumstances there is no fraud being committed it's false information and people following the bad advice may end up getting themselves into trouble

I'd be interested to know what those circumstances are. People can only get in trouble by booking more hours than they've worked. As for the vehicles that's not really relevant, but if there are any doubts ask for it to be put in writing and in that same vein ask for the DOM to put in writing you can book more hours than you've worked, now in those circumstances you would be covered - as for word of mouth, remember DOM speaks with forked tongue

The circumstance has already been mentioned, dom looking for work to be covered on ot, no one wants it but a postie says i will do those 3 hours of work if you pay me 5, if agreed before hand then the postie has not committed fraud in any way whatsoever

Well there's the rub, claiming 5 hrs pay for 3 hours work is wrong, quite simply fraudulent, the circumstances do not justify overpayment. If you don't want the 3 hours work for 3 hours pay simply don't do it.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

By the way unions stance on this is a big no no, just to be clear I am against it as well but I don't like people bandying about terms like fraud etc when in certain circumstances there is no fraud being committed it's false information and people following the bad advice may end up getting themselves into trouble

I'd be interested to know what those circumstances are. People can only get in trouble by booking more hours than they've worked. As for the vehicles that's not really relevant, but if there are any doubts ask for it to be put in writing and in that same vein ask for the DOM to put in writing you can book more hours than you've worked, now in those circumstances you would be covered - as for word of mouth, remember DOM speaks with forked tongue

The circumstance has already been mentioned, dom looking for work to be covered on ot, no one wants it but a postie says i will do those 3 hours of work if you pay me 5, if agreed before hand then the postie has not committed fraud in any way whatsoever

Well there's the rub, claiming 5 hrs pay for 3 hours work is wrong, quite simply fraudulent, the circumstances do not justify overpayment. If you don't want the 3 hours work for 3 hours pay simply don't do it.

Do you even know what the word fraud actually means? What is being done in that situation is not fraud in the slightest there is no deception whatsoever by the postie that's why it's not fraud. The fact that the amount to be paid has been agreed before the work along with the fact that the dom knows there is 3 hours of work but is going to pay for 5 and all this is agreed before the work is carried out is what stops it being fraud

I agree with you it's wrong and rep should be putting a stop to it but it's not illegal and definitely not fraud

[janitor]

Ok so I buy a limited edition car for £20,000 and sell it to a collector, for £50,000 is that fraud.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Ok so I buy a limited edition car for £20,000 and sell it to a collector, for £50,000 is that fraud.

You could buy an old fiesta for £100 quid and sell it to the collector for £50,000 and as long as you have not made any false representations or attempted to deceive him you have not committed fraud

[janitor]

This is the point I'm trying to make, the Postie has made an offer, the DOM has the option to say no, and very few DOMs make decisions off their own back, so this would probably be run by higher authority, it just depends on how much they want the mail out of the door.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Ok so I buy a limited edition car for £20,000 and sell it to a collector, for £50,000 is that fraud.

This has no relevance, it's a rubbish example, that's buying and selling for profit.

Anyone claiming overtime, signing for it and not performing the said/agreed hours is obtaining monetary payment by deception, and the DOM that signs it off is complicit and liable too.

It's not deception or fraud if the postie has had a discussion with the dom and if the number of hours to be paid for the work was agreed before the work was carried out

Think of it as money rather than hours if the conversation went pay me an extra £50 quid to clear that frame it's only going to take an hour and the dom agrees to it the clearly no deception or fraud as both partie were fully aware of what they are agreeing to

[janitor]

So working is not buying and selling for a profit, do you do you deliver the mail for free.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

The only thing I can deduce from these defensive posts is that there are more 'ghosters' and 'runners' in Royal Mail than I imagined.........

There is quite a few of them and these posts are not defending them just attempting to inform people who are mistakenly thinking it's fraud when it's not