Latest on news24 re deal

[strangler]

Just had a reporter on news24. Reckons final salary scheme closed to new members, flexibility to be agreed at local level and the pay rise to be closer to 2.5%.

[Stormproof]

I don't understand all this 'local level' crap, we all work for the same firm, surely we should all work with the same deal/rules...........never understood it, never will

[baldrick]

Well if it is correct it might mean that the strong offices with good reps will negotiate decent agreements, while those who scabbed will get shafted At least I hope so, and not the other way round
:lfo :cfo

[strangler]

I don't understand all this 'local level' crap, we all work for the same firm, surely we should all work with the same deal/rules...........never understood it, never will

I do agree with you. A lot can depend on what your rep is like so it`s not ideal. However some places are totally different. RDC where I work is completely different job to delivery and mail centres different again.

[LondonUNISON]

It could well be the other way round. Local agreements are a nightmare and management use that to pick disputes with militant offices to then try and get reps and militants out of the workplace.

Also

Reckons final salary scheme closed to new members

If this is true it's a real blow in the long run. The PCS (civil service union) accepted a deal like this a year or two back. It basically means that if you leave and come back you lose your right to the final salary pension scheme and how many people stay in the same job for the rest of their life now days? Also because the postal service has a fairly high turnover of staff it means that in a fairly short amount of time you end up with a two tier work force (as has happened in the PCS). In turn that means when the government/management comes back for more attacks the union and workforce is divided. Why would future postal workers fight for the pension rights of other members that they haven't got?

I know this isn't my dispute as such but I'm really worried about seeing unions made two tier and would strongly recommend voting against any deal which does this.

[Stevo UK]

well our office is f****d. We had 100% on every strike but we have NO Union Rep and our boss is one of the biggest bullys ive ever had the misfortune to know. He walks all over us anyway so he will be rubbing his hands together if this is true.

[LondonUNISON]

well our office is f****d. We had 100% on every strike but we have NO Union Rep and our boss is one of the biggest bullys ive ever had the misfortune to know. He walks all over us anyway so he will be rubbing his hands together if this is true.

Sadly this is true. Moves away from national agreements, whatever the union or dispute, are nearly always a set back.

Basically management don't give a f**k if they have to move a bit on pay (for the short term anyway), but if they can get flexibility (and local agreements will gradually erode workers rights) and then get a two tier deal on pensions then they'll be laughing.

[pickaname]

And what happens if there is disagreement at local level?

Its bullshit...flexibility should be removed from the deal full stop...just scrap the job and finish agreement.

And whats to stop these c***s from coming back and changing their minds again...it seems agreements arent worth s**t with these two c***s:

:cfo :lfo

[LondonUNISON]

And what happens if there is disagreement at local level?

It means you're in a very weak position to stop management getting their way.

[mailjock]

We have to be very careful about local agreements as I'm sure this is part of RMs masterplan to actually weaken the national baragaining position of the CWU.

Always remember this is not the end of the war just one battle in the campaign and we have always got to be wary of ambushes along the way.

But local agreements can work in our favour as well if properly handled as long as any problems can be immediately escalaed to area, regional, national level - we cannot allow bully boy managers to use local agreements to bully members or non-members. No, not even strike breakers much as it sticks in our craw. We allow them to be shat on then good trade unionists in their offices will be shafted as well.

That's always the problem when fighting as a trade unionist - we can't allow personal self-interest to be the sole motivator of our actions. We have principles unlike scabbing scum who should be tossed out the union for conduct unbecoing a union member in crossing their own picket line.

Normally I would say send them to Coventry but that would be a slur on the good trade unionists there and I don't want to fall into the xenophobia of Crozier and his Spanish Practices.

[the button]

We have to be very careful about local agreements as I'm sure this is part of RMs masterplan to actually weaken the national baragaining position of the CWU.

Absolutely spot on. You'll get picked off, office by office, and the bosses will have the "Well, they did it in such-and-such a place" argument ready-made.

[LondonUNISON]

very true the_button. Over time local agreements won't work in the CWUs favour and that's why RM will be rubbing their hands together if they can get this through.

[NWpostie]

And what happens if there is disagreement at local level?

Its bullshit...flexibility should be removed from the deal full stop...just scrap the job and finish agreement.

And whats to stop these c***s from coming back and changing their minds again...it seems agreements arent worth s**t with these two c***s:

:cfo :lfo

the job and finish was what screwed you up, by showing the Boses that you can do more for less, theythinkthey can get away with murder, the Job and Finish puts you on shaky grounds, I remember the "REM 11" case many years ago who sacked for finishing their job and going home before they were due to finish, they went to court and RM fully expected it to be open and shut bar the shouting, CWU took on the case, RM tried to delay the Court hearing many times, when it evntually went ahead, RM was found to be at fault and the REM 11 were compensated and some were reinstated sadly some died before the case was concluded, it was NOT RMs finest hour.

http://www.cwu.org/news.asp?step=3&NID=666

I personally believe the Job and Finish was a Trojan horse to make a rod for your own back, by the recent management, it never used to be like that.

my office is now doing the job properly even with only about 80% not using the cars, it still caused chaos on the platform, the managment are tearing their hairs out, they had to hire extra vans to take them out, thats the way it should be, they used the fact that Posties were using cars to add more duties on the drivers, more street s on the Walks, time to put a stop to that, show them what the walks really is like, cut off if you have to, don't make it any harder for yourself, don't work your day off, make it harder for the management, they had it too easy for too long.

Chicken , Home , Roost comes to mind.

[iow1]

if offices get to choose start times then my office will be interesting. our line manager has child commitments. the mail to the iw is still suppose to arrive at the same time it does now. according to the info given at a meeting. when all the ballot bits kicked off i was told by our rep that she had seen the wave arrivals as he had howed us. so in theory our office shouldn't change. however that still puts us in a dodgy position as ryde and it's associated offices agreed to later starts months ago.and the strike breakers didn't really strike.
so we just have to pray that some line managers will listen to reason.......
as for getting picked off i have never moved up the senority list so fast. not that that will mean s**t soon

[strangler]

It could well be the other way round. Local agreements are a nightmare and management use that to pick disputes with militant offices to then try and get reps and militants out of the workplace.

Also

Reckons final salary scheme closed to new members

If this is true it's a real blow in the long run. The PCS (civil service union) accepted a deal like this a year or two back. It basically means that if you leave and come back you lose your right to the final salary pension scheme and how many people stay in the same job for the rest of their life now days? Also because the postal service has a fairly high turnover of staff it means that in a fairly short amount of time you end up with a two tier work force (as has happened in the PCS). In turn that means when the government/management comes back for more attacks the union and workforce is divided. Why would future postal workers fight for the pension rights of other members that they haven't got?

I know this isn't my dispute as such but I'm really worried about seeing unions made two tier and would strongly recommend voting against any deal which does this.

It`s a very hard one to call but I do understand what you`re saying. All I can say from my own perspective is the final salary scheme should stay but we are being told (not just by RM) that pensions will have to change to some extent so....final salary scheme stays for all existing members, different scheme for new members. Am I willing to go on strike to keep final salary scheme for people that haven`t joined RM yet? Common sense tells me no. They`ll know what the proposed pension scheme for them is when they apply for the job. If they don`t fancy it they shouldn`t join. May sound harsh but we have to protect all the current staff rather than sacrifice years of hard work/ contributions for those that may join in years to come.