Getting overtime while still in duty time

[world class male]

It happens day in day out at our delivery office, a few are actually paid overtime to sort their own duties when most have to manage within our standard hours, thus causing the rest to be late due to lack of sorters/ft staff, they then take extra out on "overtime"
quite often they have booked 3,4 hours overtime and still back well before clocking off time,
we who aren't in the clique just get grief why we can't complete,
my stock reply is "get so'n'so" to take mine out later, they've already been out 60/90 minutes on delivery, they soon skulk off.
RM management is a complete and utter joke, no backbone, i'm all for them having a stern word when needed, that's their job, but so many different rules for different people.

[postmandick]

we 'lost' a manager and two posties who where fiddling there O/T ...... and yet still Posties are still booking off 45 Mins after they have finished dont they understand

Our ex manager was 'paying' staff in mileage ? ....... so you wanted a new pair of shoes but have a dodgy shaped feet I will pay you £35 and the rest in mileage
NO THIS IS FRAUD

Just work your hours if you have to do O/T get back at correct time or don't do it !!

[korky]

sorry, but overtime is "after" you've completed your own daily duties, in this industry, individual fitness shouldn't discriminate either way.
every duty should be made do-able by every posty to a set standard
some are slower,some are faster, that's life, just because someone is more efficient shouldn't mean ridicule when doing some extra to cover lack of staff, also shouldn't mean us of average pace or slower get grief
lets face it, it's every man/woman for themselves
the union (which will be dead to RM in 3/4 years) does nothing to sort this mess out to salvage anything and are milking every penny they can out of us.
we have our main manager sorting,line managers (injuries permitting) walking and some posh guy in a suit from above from god knows where out too!
no full time jobs & only certain folk get overtime though because we've not enough work
i got asked to go in early tomorrow due to staff shortage, i got told 3 weeks ago i wasn't allowed the early overtime anymore

[Jimbobb]

It's ok saying it's a big no no but does anyone know of anyone who has been done for it?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It's ok saying it's a big no no but does anyone know of anyone who has been done for it?

RM worker faces jail after alleged false overtime claims.

[antcpfc]

Surely it is just the same as 'piecework' which goes on in many industries.They offer a set rate for doing extra work e.g. half a delivery. Obviously claiming for extra on your own duty and finishing within time is a different matter.

[bustedflush]

This is highly contentious. Postman A is a runner and finishes his delivery 1hr. early. Postman B is not and finishes bang on time. Each are offered a loop paying fixed 3/4 hour OT off of the docket/round sheet and take it out with them. Of course A does the OT too within his time, B works over. Both have received 8 3/4 hours pay for doing 8 3/4 hours worth of posting. The difference is postman A has finished early, which brings us back to early finishing per se. If we follow this logic, then all posties being paid 39 hrs. a week and working 35 because they are quick and/or runners are committing fraud. This we know is nonsense, is not forbidden and is encouraged by managers to reduce the bill for posties going over, to ensure that people help out and volunteer for docket and customers receive mail on time as early as possible.

The issue here is people NOT distinguishing between 'hours worked' and 'post delivered'. The docket OT loops are based on a fixed payment for the postman delivering it, so as long as he fulfils that delivery he hasn't committed 'fraud' in my opinion - he has simply taken the fixed payment offered on top of his wage for doing so.

TBT's link to the fraud prosecution is bit disingenuous I think, as it refers to people claiming for fictitious 'work' and not doing anything, whereas the early-finisher has done the extra work he has got the OT payment for.

I don't like runners too much myself, but it seems a lot of the opinion here comes from those who feel a little bit of envy that some other posties have the physical capacity to earn extra in the same amount of hours that they work themselves.

It's 'one of those things' like the trolley business - yes, theoretically we are supposed to do this-and-that but in the reality of everyday logistics and time available plus the individual posties' preferences a practical unofficial compromise seems to be in place.

[dvbuk55]

This is highly contentious. Postman A is a runner and finishes his delivery 1hr. early. Postman B is not and finishes bang on time. Each are offered a loop paying fixed 3/4 hour OT off of the docket/round sheet and take it out with them. Of course A does the OT too within his time, B works over. Both have received 8 3/4 hours pay for doing 8 3/4 hours worth of posting. The difference is postman A has finished early, which brings us back to early finishing per se. If we follow this logic, then all posties being paid 39 hrs. a week and working 35 because they are quick and/or runners are committing fraud. This we know is nonsense, is not forbidden and is encouraged by managers to reduce the bill for posties going over, to ensure that people help out and volunteer for docket and customers receive mail on time as early as possible.

The issue here is people NOT distinguishing between 'hours worked' and 'post delivered'. The docket OT loops are based on a fixed payment for the postman delivering it, so as long as he fulfils that delivery he hasn't committed 'fraud' in my opinion - he has simply taken the fixed payment offered on top of his wage for doing so.

TBT's link to the fraud prosecution is bit disingenuous I think, as it refers to people claiming for fictitious 'work' and not doing anything, whereas the early-finisher has done the extra work he has got the OT payment for.

I don't like runners too much myself, but it seems a lot of the opinion here comes from those who feel a little bit of envy that some other posties have the physical capacity to earn extra in the same amount of hours that they work themselves.

It's 'one of those things' like the trolley business - yes, theoretically we are supposed to do this-and-that but in the reality of everyday logistics and time available plus the individual posties' preferences a practical unofficial compromise seems to be in place.

Well the one flaw of course and one that RM are working on is the system being trialled where the benching of mail eliminates the set delivery. A postman will be given a set amount to deliver and as postie A runs round like a loony he'll get more and postie B who uses his loaf and works at a steady pace will do less. It does have some merit this system because if you only have 52 people and enough work for 54 well you just give each one a little bit more to those claiming OT in normal work time.

[krussel]

This is highly contentious. Postman A is a runner and finishes his delivery 1hr. early. Postman B is not and finishes bang on time. Each are offered a loop paying fixed 3/4 hour OT off of the docket/round sheet and take it out with them. Of course A does the OT too within his time, B works over. Both have received 8 3/4 hours pay for doing 8 3/4 hours worth of posting. The difference is postman A has finished early, which brings us back to early finishing per se. If we follow this logic, then all posties being paid 39 hrs. a week and working 35 because they are quick and/or runners are committing fraud. This we know is nonsense, is not forbidden and is encouraged by managers to reduce the bill for posties going over, to ensure that people help out and volunteer for docket and customers receive mail on time as early as possible.

The issue here is people NOT distinguishing between 'hours worked' and 'post delivered'. The docket OT loops are based on a fixed payment for the postman delivering it, so as long as he fulfils that delivery he hasn't committed 'fraud' in my opinion - he has simply taken the fixed payment offered on top of his wage for doing so.

TBT's link to the fraud prosecution is bit disingenuous I think, as it refers to people claiming for fictitious 'work' and not doing anything, whereas the early-finisher has done the extra work he has got the OT payment for.

I don't like runners too much myself, but it seems a lot of the opinion here comes from those who feel a little bit of envy that some other posties have the physical capacity to earn extra in the same amount of hours that they work themselves.

It's 'one of those things' like the trolley business - yes, theoretically we are supposed to do this-and-that but in the reality of everyday logistics and time available plus the individual posties' preferences a practical unofficial compromise seems to be in place.

Well the one flaw of course and one that RM are working on is the system being trialled where the benching of mail eliminates the set delivery. A postman will be given a set amount to deliver and as postie A runs round like a loony he'll get more and postie B who uses his loaf and works at a steady pace will do less. It does have some merit this system because if you only have 52 people and enough work for 54 well you just give each one a little bit more to those claiming OT in normal work time.

So will this remove set walks and the postie just given streets

[dvbuk55]

So will this remove set walks and the postie just given streets

I don't know krussel but it would seem logical that without the frame prep there wouldn't be a necessity to have a fixed round. Moving on a stage if the work is set out by A then B could be brought in just to deliver. I don't think it's anytime soon though because it would take quite a lot of organising and RM aren't known for swift planning and application are they?

[daveyeff]

So will this remove set walks and the postie just given streets

I don't know krussel but it would seem logical that without the frame prep there wouldn't be a necessity to have a fixed round. Moving on a stage if the work is set out by A then B could be brought in just to deliver. I don't think it's anytime soon though because it would take quite a lot of organising and RM aren't known for swift planning and application are they?

if you give two posties the same amount of mail, you may have one duty that is all steps, steep hills, long driveways, the other that is all terraced houses, giving rise to issues over performance. one postie could do his in say 4 hrs while the other takes 5 hrs.....unless of course they equate the amount of mail accordingly.

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

So will this remove set walks and the postie just given streets

I don't know krussel but it would seem logical that without the frame prep there wouldn't be a necessity to have a fixed round. Moving on a stage if the work is set out by A then B could be brought in just to deliver. I don't think it's anytime soon though because it would take quite a lot of organising and RM aren't known for swift planning and application are they?

if you give two posties the same amount of mail, you may have one duty that is all steps, steep hills, long driveways, the other that is all terraced houses, giving rise to issues over performance. one postie could do his in say 4 hrs while the other takes 5 hrs.....unless of course they equate the amount of mail accordingly.

There is no excuse for the letterbox dimensions of every delivery point being on record either, to clear muddy waters a little further as regards real workload. So the OPG (and lino) know what size parcel will fit through No. 23's "Victorian" letterbox and thereby have a better understanding of what non-signature parcel size truly is an attendance call for each household.

This sort of stuff should have been done by planners for years, but failing that, send OPGs out with a measuring tape every Tuesday (and any other "quiet" days) to record "x" number of letterboxes dimensions on their walk.

[daveyeff]

planners tested our duty in the middle of summer on a Tuesday (with full lapsing).....needless to say we came back at 25 mins under time. there is too many variants on this job to have a model week.....we told them to test it on a Thursday or Friday in the middle of September or March....obviously this fell on deaf ears.

[postmandick]

Hi what 'bustedflush' says is correct (but not) if a postman is given a set amount of O/T to deliver.... 3/4 Hour and jogs around with No break and drives as if he is fire and gets back within his duty time surely he has earn't his O/T payment

But the ones that drift back in at 2:39 and say that they havn't had there break and 'book' it gain 3/4 Hour fraudulently

as we can see from Sunderland doing this little fiddle can swing around and bite you on the bum ....

is it really worth it ?

[daveyeff]

Hi what 'bustedflush' says is correct (but not) if a postman is given a set amount of O/T to deliver.... 3/4 Hour and jogs around with No break and drives as if he is fire and gets back within his duty time surely he has earn't his O/T payment

But the ones that drift back in at 2:39 and say that they havn't had there break and 'book' it gain 3/4 Hour fraudulently

as we can see from Sunderland doing this little fiddle can swing around and bite you on the bum ....

is it really worth it ?

er,,,whats happened in ''mackemland''....have I missed something?