Rural mail in front of van.

[Lounge Lizard]

Its so unfair as they know we put Mail in front of van & that's is fine until some thief steals some & then it will be " why did you leave Mail in the front " you could be sacked , same as speeding & not wearing seatbelt they know it goes on & all will be fine until something goes wrong & then they will throw book at you , ask you manager to give you a black or white answer & have it in writing then you won't have a problem , rural delivery will take much longer if seatbelt worn every time you move off , no speeding & all Mail in back of van , they know it's not practical but if anything goes wrong they will throw book at you , also they know we leave engine running on stops when it's just a couple houses to do & jump back in , stop this now as if ya van gets nicked with keys in it they WILL sack you !

Looking at the "Drivers Manual" doesn't answer the question.
Appendix 1, page 111 ambiguously states "Royal Mail has provided guidelines for all of its employees involved in driving duties relating to the movement of mail, these guidelines are known as the 'Security Rules For Drivers' as contained in Appendix 1 of the Drivers Manual" - so what are they, rules or guidelines ?
Then under "Deliveries", pages 113 and 114, paragraph 'B', of fourteen paragraphs, just states "Load ALL mail into rear of vehicle and ensure door is locked." Yes, that's on leaving the Delivery Office but, unless I've missed it in any of the 208 pages, there's no 'guidance' about, or 'rule' on, how much mail at it time is to be retrieved from the 'rear of vehicle' for delivery.
- Obviously written by a bumbling DOM rather than a lawyer.

[robbertwhitton]

As expected this topic has ooened a whole can of worms.all fine until something goes wrong,and see them pounce on you,i havnt been stopped yet,cant wait!!

[hampshireman]

I wish my round would be timed and tested,its not gonna happen ,trust me!

Post revision my partnered walk has been tested. Over by 1:45. apparently still no problem with it!!!

[OnAFlyer]

Until recently we had a big tray in the front (they even had the rounds name stamped on the side) until we heard it was a no no.
I did try working just from the back , but it seems twice as much effort and takes longer - fine if your being timed/pressured to flex.
I gave up after about 10 minutes and put the next bundle + packets in the pouch in the front, Its much easier if the pouch is facing you and not wrapped round the back rest.

I don't get it, why is it 'twice as much effort' to walk 3 steps to the back of the van and take out a pouch? I'd argue that it's actually less effort, because your way you are loading up the back of the van, then transferring a pouch/bundle/packets to the front after every loop then still having to take that out anyway.

[POSTMAN]

Work from the back-just in case-it's not the end of the world-may even save your job.

[michael147]

As usual,largely nonsensical and open to large amounts of interpretation (like whether they want to get rid of you or not).
Either you are carrying mail in the front or you are not. A bundle? definition? 20 items or massive one you can barely tie up, 100 items?
Is there a difference dependant on the vehicle?
I do two separate rurals, one in a van with a grill fitted between front and back so therefore smashing passenger window would only allow
items in front to be stolen.(if there were any there).
However second van has no grill fitted, two seats in rear and then a back loading area, again not separated.So anyone braking passenger
window has very quick access to all of the van (in this case can you argue in essence there is no front or back of the van because it is
not sectioned off?) see what i mean?
I have on occasion read the `security rules for drivers` quite frankly its next to impossible to do the job if you follow them!
For example when you pull up to make a delivery. `Does the situation look normal?`(quote) well define normality for me which is surely
dependant on time and place and interpretation. Packed full of such vagaries,i could go on but i am sure you do not want me too!

[Brainache]

Until recently we had a big tray in the front (they even had the rounds name stamped on the side) until we heard it was a no no.
I did try working just from the back , but it seems twice as much effort and takes longer - fine if your being timed/pressured to flex.
I gave up after about 10 minutes and put the next bundle + packets in the pouch in the front, Its much easier if the pouch is facing you and not wrapped round the back rest.

I don't get it, why is it 'twice as much effort' to walk 3 steps to the back of the van and take out a pouch? I'd argue that it's actually less effort, because your way you are loading up the back of the van, then transferring a pouch/bundle/packets to the front after every loop then still having to take that out anyway.

Its a rural - dont do loops or transfer pouches. If the mail is in the front, you look at it, pick up the relevant mail and deliver it - if your working from the back of the van, you go to back of van , open it, find the mail, close it and deliver. I would guess that takes 3 or 4 times longer to pick up the relevent mail - 200ish times every day !! If it only takes 10 extra seconds at each delivery point working from back of van - that comes to an extra 33 minutes on the duty.
I`m quite happy doing it the correct/slower way if thats the way they want it - let the runners do the flexing.

[Himaggen]

Looking at the "Drivers Manual" doesn't answer the question.
Appendix 1, page 111 ambiguously states "Royal Mail has provided guidelines for all of its employees involved in driving duties relating to the movement of mail, these guidelines are known as the 'Security Rules For Drivers' as contained in Appendix 1 of the Drivers Manual" - so what are they, rules or guidelines ?

The Security Rules for Drivers (Delivery and Collections) states:
Deliveries

1. Lock ALL Special Delivery (SD) items into the security box where fitted. If there is no security box, ensure SD items are carried in the rear of the vehicle, just behind the partition,
2. All mail must be loaded into the rear or side of the vehicle which then must be locked, the only exceptions being:-
   • In vehicles that are NOT carrying passengers in the front seat/s it is permissible to carry a small quantity of mail, which may include packets (but not SD items) in the cab providing that the items are fully contained inside a mini delivery pouch (MB44) which must be securely fastened to the passenger seat using the passenger seat belt.
   The small quantity of mail can be left in the vehicle for a short period of time as follows:
   • When leaving the OMV to deliver mail (up to a maximum of 10 minutes) the MB44 mini delivery pouch may be left secured to the front passenger seat (flap over the pouch keeping all mail from view) close all windows fully and lock all doors - also set alarms where fitted.
   • Where the OMV is left unattended for more than 10 minutes ALL mail must be removed from the cab (this must be secured in the rear of the van or carried with the driver). On leaving your vehicle the passenger window must remain closed. Wherever practical the drivers window should be closed. It is accepted that the drivers may be left partially open to allow for ventillation. Ensure that passenger and driver doors are locked - also, set alarms where fitted.
   • No mail may be kept in the front of a vehicle which is carrying a passenger.

[pod25]

That is how I was trained. Using a pouch bag and secure the bag to the seat using the seat belt. All SD in the rear of the van.

[Lounge Lizard]

Looking at the "Drivers Manual" doesn't answer the question.
Appendix 1, page 111 ambiguously states "Royal Mail has provided guidelines for all of its employees involved in driving duties relating to the movement of mail, these guidelines are known as the 'Security Rules For Drivers' as contained in Appendix 1 of the Drivers Manual" - so what are they, rules or guidelines ?

The Security Rules for Drivers (Delivery and Collections) states:
Deliveries

1. Lock ALL Special Delivery (SD) items into the security box where fitted. If there is no security box, ensure SD items are carried in the rear of the vehicle, just behind the partition,
2. All mail must be loaded into the rear or side of the vehicle which then must be locked, the only exceptions being:-
   • In vehicles that are NOT carrying passengers in the front seat/s it is permissible to carry a small quantity of mail, which may include packets (but not SD items) in the cab providing that the items are fully contained inside a mini delivery pouch (MB44) which must be securely fastened to the paqssenger seat using the passenger seat belt.
   The small quantity of mail can be left in the vehicle for a short period of time as follows:
   • When leaving the OMV to deliver mail (up to a maximum of 10 minutes) the MB44 mini delivery pouch may be left secured to the front passenger seat (flap over the pouch keeping all mail from view) close all windows fully and lock all doors - also set alarms where fitted.
   • Where the OMV is left unattended for more than 10 minutes ALL mail must be removed from the cab (this must be secured in the rear of the van or carried with the driver). On leaving your vehicle the passenger window must remain closed. Wherever practical the drivers window should be closed. It is accepted that the drivers may be left partially open to allow for ventillation. Ensure that passenger and driver doors are locked - also, set alarms where fitted.
   • No mail may be kept in the front of a vehicle which is carrying a passenger.

Thanks, Himaggen.
I've never seen that before, and those details aren't included in the "Drivers Manual" are they ?

[Himaggen]

No, they are updated usually annually but have been known to be updated six monthly.

Either way all OPG's, including non-drivers, should be signing them, (it is auditable), at the same frequency

[Lounge Lizard]

No, they are updated usually annually but have been known to be updated six monthly.

Either way all OPG's, including non-drivers, should be signing them, (it is auditable), at the same frequency

I sign that I've read the "Drivers Manual" but not "The Security Rules for Drivers (Delivery and Collections)"

[ballee]

No, they are updated usually annually but have been known to be updated six monthly.

Either way all OPG's, including non-drivers, should be signing them, (it is auditable), at the same frequency

I sign that I've read the "Drivers Manual" but not "The Security Rules for Drivers (Delivery and Collections)"

Why not just simply ask a member of the security team what the true definition is. This way there will be no ambiguity.

[Lounge Lizard]

No, they are updated usually annually but have been known to be updated six monthly.

Either way all OPG's, including non-drivers, should be signing them, (it is auditable), at the same frequency

I sign that I've read the "Drivers Manual" but not "The Security Rules for Drivers (Delivery and Collections)"

Why not just simply ask a member of the security team what the true definition is. This way there will be no ambiguity.

I've never heard of 'the security team'.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Its the term RM use officially for POIS, IB, the Feds - whatever you want to call them.