Responses to Employment Tribunal on Holiday Pay

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Letter to Branches




No. 710/14
Ref: GS17.4
Date: 7th November 2014

To: All Branches

Dear Colleague

Responses to Employment Tribunal on Holiday Pay

Unite the Union won a groundbreaking employment appeal tribunal on Tuesday 4 November, the successful appeal means all UK employers need to include overtime pay when calculating workers’ holiday pay.

Please see bellow a collection of responses to Employment Tribunal on Holiday Pay compiled by DeHavilland.

Confederation of British Industry (CBI) - CBI comments on holiday pay ruling
Tue, 4 November 2014 | Campaign Organisation Press Release
 CBI comments on holiday pay ruling
4th November 2014
The CBI commented on an Employment Tribunal ruling that overtime should be taken into account when holiday pay is calculated.
John Cridland, CBI Director-General, said:"This is a real blow to UK businesses now facing the prospect of punitive costs potentially running into billions of pounds – and not all will survive, which could mean significant job losses.
"These cases are creating major uncertainty for businesses and impacting on investment and resourcing decisions.
"This judgment must be challenged. We need the UK Government to step up its defence of the current UK law, and use its powers to limit any retrospective liability that firms may face."

BCC - BCC: Tribunal pay ruling may be unbearable for businesses
Tue, 4 November 2014 | Campaign Organisation Press Release
Commenting on the ruling from the Employment Appeal Tribunal in the Bear Scotland versus Fulton case, Adam Marshall, Executive Director of Policy and Public Affairs at the British Chambers of Commerce said:
“This ruling is damaging for businesses across the UK. Firms could be at risk of incurring significant financial losses, which could force them to close their doors altogether.
“Managers across Britain are now in the difficult position of having to carry out more complex calculations for holiday pay; estimating overtime and commission rates of staff on holidays. This expanded definition of ‘pay’ is so ludicrous that the government itself has argued against it. No business should have to pay more than base salary during holiday periods, unless they elect to do so.
“What businesses fear most is that these judgments will open the door to backdated claims, which could run into many millions. Firms which have complied with existing regulations are shocked by the thought of having to back-pay holiday entitlements – a change they could not have predicted.
“The pressure being placed on businesses by both the British tribunals and European courts on the issue of holiday pay is becoming unbearable. After the worst recession in living memory, with many companies working to reverse pay cuts and invest in their employees, giant new pay claims could be a huge blow to their growth prospects.”

UCATT - UCATT Welcomes Overtime Holiday Pay Decision
Tue, 4 November 2014 | Campaign Organisation Press Release
Construction union UCATT have welcomed today’s (November 4th) decision at the Employment Appeals Tribunal that overtime should be included in calculating workers’ holiday pay.
Steve Murphy, General Secretary of UCATT, said: “Construction workers are often reliant on overtime to make ends meet. Workers should not be penalised by having their pay cut when taking holidays.”
UCATT will now be working to ensure that construction employers fully comply with the tribunal’s decision.
Mr Murphy, warned: “UCATT will be pursuing all construction employers to ensure that they fully comply with today’s decision and do not try to short change our members.”
If UCATT members believe that they are being underpaid for their holidays they should contact their UCATT Regional Office as soon as possible.


Holiday pay ruling is a victory for workers, says TUC
Tue, 4 November 2014 | Campaign Organisation Press Release

Commenting on the ruling today (Tuesday) that overtime should be taken into account when holiday pay is calculated, TUC General Secretary Frances O'Grady said:

“Failing to count overtime when calculating holiday pay is quite simply wrong. This ruling marks a victory for people who work long and hard to make a living, and who deserve to be properly paid when they take their well-earned leave.

“Scaremongering about the possible impact of this ruling is irresponsible. British business is far more robust than some of its spokespeople would admit. It's worth remembering that in 1999 a change in the law meant that six million people gained more holiday entitlements, and businesses easily absorbed the increase and employment continued to rise.”


Institute of Economic Affairs - Media release - Employment Appeal Tribunal's decision will harm businesses
Tue, 4 November 2014 | Campaign Organisation Press Release
Employment Appeal Tribunal's decision will harm businesses
Commenting on the Employment Appeal Tribunal's decision that holiday pay should be defined to include regular overtime, Prof Len Shackleton, IEA Fellow and labour market expert, said:
"This decision has the potential to cost employers huge amounts in retrospective claims. This in turn will threaten firms' ability to create jobs in the future.
"The ruling illustrates the difficulties employers always face in interpreting badly-drafted employment laws. In this case the initiative came from the European Union's 2003 Working Directive which required paid holidays, but the Labour government of the time was also responsible for drafting unambiguous UK transposing legislation - and failed to do so.
"This verdict will be appealed, but the government should also urgently examine whether it is possible to prevent significant past claims by making this ruling applicable only from the date of the decision. In the future we ought to search much harder to find ways to deregulate the labour market whether we are in or out of the EU."
To arrange an interview please contact Camilla Goodwin, Communications Officer: 07821 971 443


Unite secures ground breaking tribunal victory over holiday pay
Tue, 4 November 2014 | Campaign Organisation Press Release
Unite members, who have been short changed by over a half of their holiday pay, have won a ground breaking employment appeal tribunal today (Tuesday 4 November), which means all UK employers now need to include overtime pay when calculating workers’ holiday pay.
The case brought by Britain’s largest union, Unite against Amec and Hertel could lead to pay outs worth thousands of pounds and paves the way for similar cases after the appeal tribunal ruled that people obliged to work overtime should have overtime pay and other bonuses and allowances included in their holiday pay.
The 16 Unite members, a mix of electricians, scaffolders and semi-skilled operatives, worked on a project at the West Burton power station site in Nottinghamshire until it came to an end in 2012.
During that time they were consistently required to work overtime and received payments for travel time. Payments for that work were not included in holiday pay, meaning that the workers received considerably less pay when on holiday, compared to when they were working.
The appeal tribunal ruling follows an appeal by Amec and Hertel over an earlier Employment Tribunal decision in February which found in favour of the workers and recent decisions by the European Court that workers should receive normal pay when on holiday.
Unite executive director for legal, membership and affiliated services Howard Beckett said: “Up until now some workers who are required to do overtime have been penalised for taking the time off they are entitled to. This ruling not only secures justice for our members who were short changed, but means employers have got to get their house in order.
“Employers will now have to include overtime in calculating holiday pay, and those that don’t should be under no illusion that Unite will fight to ensure that our members receive their full entitlement.
“Once again Unite legal services is leading the challenge to employers and demonstrating to all workers that to receive justice in the workplace you must be in a trade union.
“Unite would like to place on record our thanks to Alys Cunningham of Thompsons Solicitors for the advice and representation given to our members in this matter. Thompsons stand shoulder to shoulder with the trade union movement and have once again shown themselves to be experts in their field.”

Any enquiries on this LTB should be forwarded to the General Secretary’s Office gsoffice@cwu.org, quoting reference GS17.4

Yours sincerely

W HAYES
General Secretary

[fishtank]

Adam Marshall, Executive Director of Policy and Public Affairs at the British Chambers of Commerce said:“This ruling is damaging for businesses across the UK. Firms could be at risk of incurring significant financial losses, which could force them to close their doors altogether.

No sympathy for companies like our own who have abused less than full time employees for years. If your staff are working far more than their contracted hours on a regular basis then the contract obviously does not match the job. If you're looking for help with the bill get the shareholders to cough up the years of dividends they've trousered off the back of your part-time staff.

Jog on Adam Marshall, Executive Director of Policy and Public Affairs at the British Chambers of Commerce.

[DGP1]

Adam Marshall, Executive Director of Policy and Public Affairs at the British Chambers of Commerce said:“This ruling is damaging for businesses across the UK. Firms could be at risk of incurring significant financial losses, which could force them to close their doors altogether.

No sympathy for companies like our own who have abused less than full time employees for years. If your staff are working far more than their contracted hours on a regular basis then the contract obviously does not match the job. If you're looking for help with the bill get the shareholders to cough up the years of dividends they've trousered off the back of your part-time staff.

Jog on Adam Marshall, Executive Director of Policy and Public Affairs at the British Chambers of Commerce.

I'm more for the abused part timers who worked full time hours and then get just their pt hours when they're off, that is the real abuse.

[fishtank]

I'm more for the abused part timers who worked full time hours and then get just their pt hours when they're off, that is the real abuse.

That's what I'm talking about.
Have you been at the cooking sherry again DGP?

[DB1100]

Royal mail should now introduce statutory sick pay to free up the funds to pay for this.

Much better to have a cull of managers,we have 3 at our DO plus 2 acting managers,then cull WCM another pointless jobs for wasters scheme,then hopefully P/Timers would get a fair deal when it comes to holiday pay.

[fishtank]

Royal mail should now introduce statutory sick pay to free up the funds to pay for this.

I wonder how many "sick" managers would agree with you?

You don't have a very good grasp of business do you, All that would achieve is it would turn delivery offices into hospital wards with everybody scared to take time off despite being riddled with disease, short term sick would go down but long term sick would go through the roof. Not so great for productivity lol.

[savo]

Is this ruling going to be retrospective as well ?

[wookie]

And what about the people who have come in on their holiday to work? (knobs) What will it mean for them?

[chrisj]

What has coming in on holiday to work got to do with this?

This is about how much people get paid when they are on holiday. At RM, the maximum anyone can get paid for being on holiday is the full time wage (39 hours) - and that is what it is about for part-timers regularly working beyond their contractual hours.

There is a precedent about treating people fairly based on the average hours they worked rather than the strict contractual hours. The precedent was set when Share allocation was based on the average hours (including SA) worked over a period of time. And it was followed with the changes made to SA holiday payments...

RM has no legs to stand on, not really. They should also immediately start paying Christmas bonuses on hours worked rather than pro-rata.

This is where we need a strong Union - not one that supports the status quo...

[aiden01]

What has coming in on holiday to work got to do with this?

This is about how much people get paid when they are on holiday. At RM, the maximum anyone can get paid for being on holiday is the full time wage (39 hours) - and that is what it is about for part-timers regularly working beyond their contractual hours.

There is a precedent about treating people fairly based on the average hours they worked rather than the strict contractual hours. The precedent was set when Share allocation was based on the average hours (including SA) worked over a period of time. And it was followed with the changes made to SA holiday payments...

RM has no legs to stand on, not really. They should also immediately start paying Christmas bonuses on hours worked rather than pro-rata.

This is where we need a strong Union - not one that supports the status quo...

the changes to sa holiday payments must be the worst deal this union has ever made at least over 150 quid worse off

[chrisj]

I have no idea about SA holiday payments really. I do not do Collections and it is only through collection that we can get Scheduled Attendance at my Delivery Office.

So how have you lost out?

[aiden01]

I have no idea about SA holiday payments really. I do not do Collections and it is only through collection that we can get Scheduled Attendance at my Delivery Office.

So how have you lost out?

well we ues to get 2 payments a year may and august and now you only get 1quarter of your sa when on leave and that is only if you had worked your schd att in the week before you go on leave at least that is what we are being led to believe in our mc hope somebody knows different.

[chrisj]

I honestly do not think you will lose out. I have not had any of our folks complain. It was my assumption that it was a good thing...

[aiden01]

I honestly do not think you will lose out. I have not had any of our folks complain. It was my assumption that it was a good thing...

well all I can say is I feel robbed. will let u know when all my leave is done how much worse I am off. thanks

[aiden01]

ps have not heard 1 person in mc say that it is a good deal we all feel robbed