30 mins flexibility

[Lincox]

I agree with that point Bullfrog, and up to a point this is what Longs and Shorts were supposed to overcome. However the problem arises when on the short days you are hit with an excessive amount of parcels, and although the mail traffic may be as normal for those days, it becomes impossible to finish on time because of the parcels. Unfortunately Linos only look at the mail traffic figures and can,t understand why you are cutting off, and still try to impose the flexibility of 30 minutes on top of the Longs and Shorts.

[Budfrog]

I agree with that point Bullfrog, and up to a point this is what Longs and Shorts were supposed to overcome. However the problem arises when on the short days you are hit with an excessive amount of parcels, and although the mail traffic may be as normal for those days, it becomes impossible to finish on time because of the parcels. Unfortunately Linos only look at the mail traffic figures and can,t understand why you are cutting off, and still try to impose the flexibility of 30 minutes on top of the Longs and Shorts.

Parcels/Packets traffic levels can be quite inaccurate as RM has never really been able to gauge accurate ACFs with the limited sampling resource that they have. This will improve if and when these streams of work are mechanised.

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

Never understood how after Delivery Methods Revision, "longs and shorts" can still exist, doing the whole day properly would mean nobody in my section has a hope of completing on time. The odd OPG does the job close to properly, leaves 33-50% of the (reidiculously big) walk behind on a "short" day to finish on time and gets daily agro from managers, but sadly most do a lot of things they should not (starting early; not taking breaks; locking up HCTs and delivering loops by pouch; not giving each attendence call knock 1min etc.) for that dangling carrot of a 1400 finish.

Walk sizes have increased since revisions, so even on "quiet days," there is plenty to do if you do not do the job a disservice.

[walkin4/4time]

My manager tells me that there is a local agreement in our office to flex across the week. I.e. if you work 1hr over on a Mon and get back 1 hour early on a Sat you don't get paid.
I only work 24hrs a week over 4 days.
My shifts change daily
Week 1 Collections Mon 12.00pm - 20.00 =8 hrs
Tues 14.30 - 19.30 = 5hrs
Wed 14.30 - 19.30 = 5hrs
Thurs 14.30 - 19.30 = 5 hrs
Total 23hrs
My manager knows that with traffic I will work over so the hour short covers most of this overtime.

Week 2 Delivery Wed 8.30 - 14.30 = 6hrs
Thurs 8.30- 14.30 = 6hrs
Fri 8.30 - 14.30 =6hrs
Sat 8.30 - 14.30 =6hrs

This is currently my week and Wed, Thurs I have already worked 4hrs overtime! He puts me on a duty where someone throws off the mail till I arrive then I finish off. The duty is attached to a Family Friendly entilement where by the guy I work with has to be picked up from home/met in the street so I have to throw off 2 frames then bag up, load into the van, call him on my phone to arrange pick up /meet. All other frames in the office are at least pulled by one person so ultimately they leave the office long before I do hence the late finish.

Week 3 Collections Mon 12.00 - 20.00 = 8 hrs
Tues 14.30 - 19.30 = 5hrs
Fri 0830 - 14.30 = 6hrs
Sat 0930 - 14.30 = 5 hrs

Week 4 Mon 0930 - 14.30 = 5hrs
Tues 0930 - 14.30 = 5hrs
Fri 0630 - 14.30 = 8hrs
Sat 0830 - 14.30 = 6hrs
My office is small and there are two other people who have 24hr contracts but they get their hours spread over 3 days with the same time start and finish times eveyday!
I have fallen out with my boss previously and he has a reputation for being vindictive.
I only have one car and I have to share with the wife and he knows that different times are awkward for me. Getting home at 8 o clock at night and having to sart cooking another meal because your wife has already cooked and washed up doesn't make for a happy existence.
Am I being victimized or does this sound fair?

[Lincox]

Firstly ask him for a copy of the local agreement which has been signed by the staff agreeing to balancing of hours or rolling over of hours whatever you want to call it. If there is no such local agreement written then the National Agreements hold precedence and under these there are no rolling of hours from one day to the next. Each day stands on it,s own merits therefore if you go over by an hour on Monday you get paid for that hour. If you are under an hour on a Tuesday then Royal Mail cannot claim that hour back. It is for them to provide you with sufficient work to cover your contracted hours. Yes they are entitled to insist you work your full contracted hours for that day which may mean that you are given extra work to do or asked to return/remain in the delivery office until your time is up.

[OnAFlyer]

Nobody gets paid OT in our office unless they're over 39hrs for the week. This is fully agreed to by our rep, not that I'm bothered because I don't work over but other people are getting shafted and I've said it many times.

[halfull]

Nobody gets paid OT in our office unless they're over 39hrs for the week. This is fully agreed to by our rep, not that I'm bothered because I don't work over but other people are getting shafted and I've said it many times.

this is banking hours & your rep is wrong to agree to this.

[Lincox]

Nobody gets paid OT in our office unless they're over 39hrs for the week. This is fully agreed to by our rep, not that I'm bothered because I don't work over but other people are getting shafted and I've said it many times.

this is banking hours & your rep is wrong to agree to this.

No rep should be agreeing to anything which is outside of national agreements unless he has the express consent of the majority of the membership that he represents. That is what being a union member is all about and especially if you are a representative. You are representing the wishes of the people who have appointed you, not coercing with the employers representatives.

[OnAFlyer]

In reply to both the above posts, I know. However, the 'swings and roundabouts' we operate benefits me because I don't work over more than once per week and usually go home a bit early a few times per week. I make sure everyone else knows there is no national agreement on banking hours, but it's up to them to open their mouths and tell managers they're not working over all the time.

[fishtank]

Nobody gets paid OT in our office unless they're over 39hrs for the week. This is fully agreed to by our rep, not that I'm bothered because I don't work over but other people are getting shafted and I've said it many times.

this is banking hours & your rep is wrong to agree to this.

I suppose you could argue that there is also an agreement to work all paid hours therefore nobody should be going home early on any day therefore no "banking" of hours would exist.

We can't have it both ways and if people want to go home early off their own back then that's hours they owe the business.

Different story obviously if you return to the office, ask a manager what to do and they tell you to go home, that's their decision then.

[halfull]

Nobody gets paid OT in our office unless they're over 39hrs for the week. This is fully agreed to by our rep, not that I'm bothered because I don't work over but other people are getting shafted and I've said it many times.

this is banking hours & your rep is wrong to agree to this.

I suppose you could argue that there is also an agreement to work all paid hours therefore nobody should be going home early on any day therefore no "banking" of hours would exist.

We can't have it both ways and if people want to go home early off their own back then that's hours they owe the business.

Different story obviously if you return to the office, ask a manager what to do and they tell you to go home, that's their decision then.

banking of hours is unagreed however you dress it up, end of.

[fishtank]

banking of hours is unagreed however you dress it up, end of.

So is going home early.....

[halfull]

banking of hours is unagreed however you dress it up, end of.

So is going home early.....

but if a manager allows it they cannot ask for that time back at a later date.
its simple, its up to management to fill our hours on a daily basis, not you made 30 minutes today you can work 30 minutes over in 3 days.
Like i said there are many ways to dress it up, swings & roundabouts,flexibility, goodwill etc.... but its all banking hours & is not agreed by our union. We are willing to work our hours everyday,its not our fault on a Tuesday the work is not there.

[OnAFlyer]

banking of hours is unagreed however you dress it up, end of.

So is going home early.....

but if a manager allows it they cannot ask for that time back at a later date.
its simple, its up to management to fill our hours on a daily basis, not you made 30 minutes today you can work 30 minutes over in 3 days.
Like i said there are many ways to dress it up, swings & roundabouts,flexibility, goodwill etc.... but its all banking hours & is not agreed by our union. We are willing to work our hours everyday,its not our fault on a Tuesday the work is not there.

I think the point fishtank is making is that if managers let you go home when you're finished (and they have every right to make you stay until time every single day)' then working over once another day if needed isn't the end of the world. It's a bit of give and take, we do it in our office and it benefits me because I go over once per week max and go home early most other days. Not massively early, 20-45 minutes most days but I'd rather do that than sit there until bang on time.

What I don't want and won't do is a fully flexible 39hrs.

[Lincox]

banking of hours is unagreed however you dress it up, end of.

So is going home early.....

but if a manager allows it they cannot ask for that time back at a later date.
its simple, its up to management to fill our hours on a daily basis, not you made 30 minutes today you can work 30 minutes over in 3 days.
Like i said there are many ways to dress it up, swings & roundabouts,flexibility, goodwill etc.... but its all banking hours & is not agreed by our union. We are willing to work our hours everyday,its not our fault on a Tuesday the work is not there.

I think the point fishtank is making is that if managers let you go home when you're finished (and they have every right to make you stay until time every single day)' then working over once another day if needed isn't the end of the world. It's a bit of give and take, we do it in our office and it benefits me because I go over once per week max and go home early most other days. Not massively early, 20-45 minutes most days but I'd rather do that than sit there until bang on time.

What I don't want and won't do is a fully flexible 39hrs.

The problem is that as I have experienced, if you work to your time and tell them you won,t complete, they start throwing the 30 minute flexibility at you as an individual but at the same time, pay those who are prepared to extend, their overtime. Surely this is not the way flexibility works, it should be for the whole unit because of some emergency situation and not on an individual basis because you are not prepared to extend.