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Is the CWU finished?

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
TrueBlueTerrier
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Re: Why Not Form A New Postal Union?

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

Trends Guild wrote:Ok..I'm not a postie, I'm just a whinging customer, but reading your threads with interest.

Many of you seem dissatisfied with the way the CWU represent you, and I can see why. And on reading the CWU charter on their website , you could easily think you were reading a RM policy statement. Certainly they are sophisiticated and business orientated, which they have to be, but I'm not convinced that they balance that with the interests of the front-line workers (just as I'm not convinced that the giant unions are in touch with their members at all anymore - they have become super-sized organisations in themselves...).
I read lots here about anti-globalisation - the CWU are certainly globalisers from reading their charter. I read lots about supporting an 'unnoficial' walkout' but being afraid to go against the CWU and alienate any support you may have and even fears that the CWU is finished if you don't get what you have asked for. You also seem to have a lot of support among the workers for your cause.

If you really feel that this is make or break, do or die time, why not form a seperate union? There are sure enough of you to do so.
The Americans have several unions -

* American Postal Workers Union
* National Association of Letter Carriers
* National Postal Mail Handlers Union
* National Rural Letter Carriers Association
* National Association of Postmasters
* National Association of Postal Supervisors
* National League of Postmasters


You appear to be suffering from the same malaise that I am - a monopoly!
So if you really all feel that strongly, why not start a parallel union and get some leaders that are not as remote as the ones you have (and not riding the same gravy train as your employer), so you can know exactly what is being said, when, by whom and you can make sure your message gets across?

Personally I would like all unions to go back to grass roots...lots of small affilated local branches...the current ones are just too gargantuan to be of any real use anymore IMHO, even if people believe that the more of you there are, the more powferul you are. It's only true if your leaders are prepared to back you up whatever you vote to do, but this lot act like mini-governments in themselves. They are supposed to be representing you...

Just a thought.

<runs for cover>
The American union system is vastly different to ours. Theirs are run nearly as a business and don't seem to get the level of grass route support as ours. They dont have the same coverage of the workforce as the CWU do (best guess is 130,000 union members out of 170,000 workforce)


The CWU do have a few problems and their lack of communication with the grass routes is shown up by the success of this forum. However the idea that we separate from the union while it has merit in the future would be a suicidal move at the moment.

If we did split we as a workforce would be fighting on 2 fronts. 1 Keeping or starting a union and 2 against royal mails bankrupt dogma and plans.

About the backing of the union they are doing what we want them to do we gave them a mandate to reject the offer 77% of those who voted rejected the offer. If a political party got that backing in general election they would have a vast majority and could probably remain in power for decades.

The CWU are also an amalgamation of 2 separate unions the Union of Communication Workers and the National Communications Union and since they did the imho it is better to have one union talking to the bosses than having 2 continually infighting with each other to gain a better bargaining position. AT least they can concentrate on the proper issues.
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Trends Guild
Posts: 63
Joined: 09 Oct 2007, 18:49

Re: Why Not Form A New Postal Union?

Post by Trends Guild »

IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
Trends Guild wrote:Ok..I'm not a postie, I'm just a whinging customer, but reading your threads with interest.

Many of you seem dissatisfied with the way the CWU represent you, and I can see why. And on reading the CWU charter on their website , you could easily think you were reading a RM policy statement. Certainly they are sophisiticated and business orientated, which they have to be, but I'm not convinced that they balance that with the interests of the front-line workers (just as I'm not convinced that the giant unions are in touch with their members at all anymore - they have become super-sized organisations in themselves...).
I read lots here about anti-globalisation - the CWU are certainly globalisers from reading their charter. I read lots about supporting an 'unnoficial' walkout' but being afraid to go against the CWU and alienate any support you may have and even fears that the CWU is finished if you don't get what you have asked for. You also seem to have a lot of support among the workers for your cause.

If you really feel that this is make or break, do or die time, why not form a seperate union? There are sure enough of you to do so.
The Americans have several unions -

* American Postal Workers Union
* National Association of Letter Carriers
* National Postal Mail Handlers Union
* National Rural Letter Carriers Association
* National Association of Postmasters
* National Association of Postal Supervisors
* National League of Postmasters


You appear to be suffering from the same malaise that I am - a monopoly!
So if you really all feel that strongly, why not start a parallel union and get some leaders that are not as remote as the ones you have (and not riding the same gravy train as your employer), so you can know exactly what is being said, when, by whom and you can make sure your message gets across?

Personally I would like all unions to go back to grass roots...lots of small affilated local branches...the current ones are just too gargantuan to be of any real use anymore IMHO, even if people believe that the more of you there are, the more powferul you are. It's only true if your leaders are prepared to back you up whatever you vote to do, but this lot act like mini-governments in themselves. They are supposed to be representing you...

Just a thought.

<runs for cover>
What's it got to do with you? You've got a lot to say for yourself about something which doesn't concern you. The membership will decide what we do, not some s**t stirring outsider like you.
So you want people outside to take an interest and support you, but then you tell them to clear off and mind their own business. Fair enough - perhaps people should winge less that the 'public doesn't know what this is all about'.

I'm not here to s**t stir - just making a poltiical comment.
I'm interested because I have an interest in politics.
As for 'it doesn't concern me'. yes it does - I have a pile of packets sitting here that I daren't post at the moment (the contents are of value), and customers moaning at me right left and centre because stuff I sent prior to the strike has not yet turned up at their end.
I am a customer, so I guess that the strike is to do with me whether people like it or not.

Why so hostile?
Trends Guild
Posts: 63
Joined: 09 Oct 2007, 18:49

Re: Why Not Form A New Postal Union?

Post by Trends Guild »

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
Trends Guild wrote:Ok..I'm not a postie, I'm just a whinging customer, but reading your threads with interest.

Many of you seem dissatisfied with the way the CWU represent you, and I can see why. And on reading the CWU charter on their website , you could easily think you were reading a RM policy statement. Certainly they are sophisiticated and business orientated, which they have to be, but I'm not convinced that they balance that with the interests of the front-line workers (just as I'm not convinced that the giant unions are in touch with their members at all anymore - they have become super-sized organisations in themselves...).
I read lots here about anti-globalisation - the CWU are certainly globalisers from reading their charter. I read lots about supporting an 'unnoficial' walkout' but being afraid to go against the CWU and alienate any support you may have and even fears that the CWU is finished if you don't get what you have asked for. You also seem to have a lot of support among the workers for your cause.

If you really feel that this is make or break, do or die time, why not form a seperate union? There are sure enough of you to do so.
The Americans have several unions -

* American Postal Workers Union
* National Association of Letter Carriers
* National Postal Mail Handlers Union
* National Rural Letter Carriers Association
* National Association of Postmasters
* National Association of Postal Supervisors
* National League of Postmasters


You appear to be suffering from the same malaise that I am - a monopoly!
So if you really all feel that strongly, why not start a parallel union and get some leaders that are not as remote as the ones you have (and not riding the same gravy train as your employer), so you can know exactly what is being said, when, by whom and you can make sure your message gets across?

Personally I would like all unions to go back to grass roots...lots of small affilated local branches...the current ones are just too gargantuan to be of any real use anymore IMHO, even if people believe that the more of you there are, the more powferul you are. It's only true if your leaders are prepared to back you up whatever you vote to do, but this lot act like mini-governments in themselves. They are supposed to be representing you...

Just a thought.

<runs for cover>
The American union system is vastly different to ours. Theirs are run nearly as a business and don't seem to get the level of grass route support as ours. They dont have the same coverage of the workforce as the CWU do (best guess is 130,000 union members out of 170,000 workforce)


The CWU do have a few problems and their lack of communication with the grass routes is shown up by the success of this forum. However the idea that we separate from the union while it has merit in the future would be a suicidal move at the moment.

If we did split we as a workforce would be fighting on 2 fronts. 1 Keeping or starting a union and 2 against royal mails bankrupt dogma and plans.

About the backing of the union they are doing what we want them to do we gave them a mandate to reject the offer 77% of those who voted rejected the offer. If a political party got that backing in general election they would have a vast majority and could probably remain in power for decades.

The CWU are also an amalgamation of 2 separate unions the Union of Communication Workers and the National Communications Union and since they did the imho it is better to have one union talking to the bosses than having 2 continually infighting with each other to gain a better bargaining position. AT least they can concentrate on the proper issues.
Ok, I understand. It just seems to me that there are further issues that the CWU has not addressed - the devil is often in the detail. Thanks for the (civil) explanation.

:Very Happy
moanmoanmoan
Posts: 86
Joined: 11 Oct 2007, 20:38

Post by moanmoanmoan »

I agree - there are a lot of issues still to be addressed.

With regard to your earlier hostile reaction from IWW I would not take it to heart.

His normal form of communication is to be insulting and obnoxious to anyone who has a different opinion.

Being incapable of reasoned arguement the poor chap just has to resort to insults!!
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 16650
Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
Gender: Male

Post by dvbuk55 »

moanmoanmoan wrote:I agree - there are a lot of issues still to be addressed.

With regard to your earlier hostile reaction from IWW I would not take it to heart.

His normal form of communication is to be insulting and obnoxious to anyone who has a different opinion.

Being incapable of reasoned arguement the poor chap just has to resort to insults!!
Tut tut Mr MechEng you should really employ a spellchecker on your machine I can't be watching you all the time - "argument". For all IWWs faults he does at least have a command of the English language AND the Olde English as well apparently.
IWW Fellow Worker
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Joined: 30 May 2007, 14:27
Gender: Male

Post by IWW Fellow Worker »

dvbuk55 wrote:Tut tut Mr MechEng you should really employ a spellchecker on your machine I can't be watching you all the time - "argument". For all IWWs faults he does at least have a command of the English language AND the Olde English as well apparently.
Thank you my friend. I get a little tired of these low-life "I've got a business to run, and you lot are ruining it" crying bastards. I might have been a bit sympathetic if they hadn't arrived here stamping their feet like petulant infant school pupils and laying the law down, but quite frankly, I hope both of these exploiters of the workers go bust.
The Industrial Workers of the World. The union whose members never scab!

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common."
meweavy
Posts: 473
Joined: 10 May 2007, 11:07

Post by meweavy »

IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:Tut tut Mr MechEng you should really employ a spellchecker on your machine I can't be watching you all the time - "argument". For all IWWs faults he does at least have a command of the English language AND the Olde English as well apparently.
Thank you my friend. I get a little tired of these low-life "I've got a business to run, and you lot are ruining it" crying bastards. I might have been a bit sympathetic if they hadn't arrived here stamping their feet like petulant infant school pupils and laying the law down, but quite frankly, I hope both of these exploiters of the workers go bust.
they could always take thier business to uk mail or dhl to deliver it... :crazy:
ulster postie
Posts: 503
Joined: 19 May 2007, 14:10
Location: N IRELAND

a new union

Post by ulster postie »

he mabe has a point, but just one point i would like to make, if a new union was formed would R.M. recognise this union, i doubt it, we would probably have to take i.a to get the recognation, i know the G.M.B. tried to get a foothold into R.M. overhere, ok they got a few members but they had no NEGOTIATION rights so what was the point in that. AFTER this i/a started i beleve most of the G.M.B. MEMBERS THEN LEFT THAT TALKING SHOP AND REJOINED THE C.W.U.. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WE ARE THE UNION, WE WILL HAVE THE LAST SAY ON ANY DEAL THAT IS STRUCK. THE ONLY WAY THAT THIS UNION WILL FAIL IS IF THE TRUE MEMBERSHIP ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN AND SOMEHOW I THINK THAT THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS
opg town walk
baggee
Posts: 86
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 16:08
Location: BURSLEM

Post by baggee »

THE CWU IS FAR FROM FINISHED :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause
IWW Fellow Worker
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Joined: 30 May 2007, 14:27
Gender: Male

Re: a new union

Post by IWW Fellow Worker »

ulster postie wrote:ONWARDS AND UPWARDS
Well said my Six County mate!

I'm a member of two unions and they both have different political aims. The CWU is reformist, while the IWW is revolutionary. Most members of the IWW are also members of TUC or AFL-CIO unions. It's all there on the IWW websites. Now, although I have my differences with the CWU leadership on things like negotiations, affiliation with Labour, election of officers, the pay of full-time officials, I am the holder of a CWU membership card and as such I will support the CWU in its fight against Royal Mail. The CWU is not finished, and even if we lose this, it won't be finished. People tell me Thatcher finished the unions, but here we are, still swinging punches at the parasites, while that old bitch is spooning baby food into her ear and drooling over photos of Pinochet and Regan.

Image
The Industrial Workers of the World. The union whose members never scab!

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common."
meweavy
Posts: 473
Joined: 10 May 2007, 11:07

Re: a new union

Post by meweavy »

ulster postie wrote:he mabe has a point, but just one point i would like to make, if a new union was formed would R.M. recognise this union, i doubt it, we would probably have to take i.a to get the recognation, i know the G.M.B. tried to get a foothold into R.M. overhere, ok they got a few members but they had no NEGOTIATION rights so what was the point in that. AFTER this i/a started i beleve most of the G.M.B. MEMBERS THEN LEFT THAT TALKING SHOP AND REJOINED THE C.W.U.. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WE ARE THE UNION, WE WILL HAVE THE LAST SAY ON ANY DEAL THAT IS STRUCK. THE ONLY WAY THAT THIS UNION WILL FAIL IS IF THE TRUE MEMBERSHIP ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN AND SOMEHOW I THINK THAT THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS
i,d like to think we do have a say,but ive said this before about our "say" in the union..when did we have a say when it came to the later starts..we didnt have a say,ballot over the later starts nothing was agreed on our behalf..and the later starts are already in...who want those apart from royal mail...

at the end of the day i do hope we do get a say when it comes to these proposals,but no matter what way you look at it,we,re just trying to protect what we already have,either way royal mail will get some of what they want regardless(ie later starts).i just hope we dont get sold down the river and at the end of it all we get to decide and not the union on our behalf.
L Tommo
Posts: 3165
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Is the CWU finished???

Post by L Tommo »

ITS ONLY FINISHED WHEN WE SAY ITS FINISHED......

NOT GORDON... NOT LIEghton... NOT HAYES OR WARD..... WE... US.... THE UNION SAY WHEN ITS HAD ITS DAY...

And i say not for a very very very long time.... IF EVER....!!!


I will back the union as long as i believe in the CWU believing in and fighting for FREE SPEECH AND RIGHTS FOR THE WORKERS....


THAT GOES AFTER IM BURNT IN A BOX... THAT GOES FOREVER....


AND OUT :cool :Applause :Applause :Applause :Applause
L TOMMO.... ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM........

EAST LONDON MAIL CENTER-ISHHHH
baggee
Posts: 86
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 16:08
Location: BURSLEM

Post by baggee »

WE ARE THE CWU AND WE HAVE TURNED THIS DISPUTE BACK TO PAY,PENSIONS,40,000 JOB LOSSES, AND NOT A PR GAME, AND NOW ADAM & ALAN ARE GETTING NERVES AND STARTING TO SWEAT A LITTLE BIT MORE DAY BY DAY.


STAY STRONG EVERYONE. :Applause :Applause :Applause
ulster postie
Posts: 503
Joined: 19 May 2007, 14:10
Location: N IRELAND

Post by ulster postie »

HI L TOMMO GLAD TO SEE YOUR BACK TO YOUR OLD WAYS, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT EVEN BEYOND THE GRAVE YOU WOULD STILL GIVE THE FECKERS A HARD TIME :wink:
opg town walk
ulster postie
Posts: 503
Joined: 19 May 2007, 14:10
Location: N IRELAND

Post by ulster postie »

i just hope we dont get sold down the river and at the end of it all we get to decide and not the union on our behalf.
YES WE WILL HAVE THE FINAL SAY ON ANY DEAL, EVEN BILLY THE DICTATOR CANT STOP THIS :nana
opg town walk