If Scotland votes aye

[LinChong]

The 'No' campaign was always going to lose the minute it decided to assume the Scottish electorate are chickens who will be scared off by fear of the new. It just means the Labour Party in the rest of the UK will have to change to become electable.

The 'Progress' group within the Labour Party that control PPC nominations has made Labour unelectable. New Labour cut working class jobs and created graduate and managerial jobs in the public sector for ignorant bullies at the same time as importing cheap immigrant labour for these bullies to 'manage'. New Labour were also responsible for allowing the banks to get away with the irresponsible lending that led to the 'credit crunch'. New Labour had its chance and caused a lot of damage. The sort of jobs that were created and the management bonus culture in the public sector bred little hitlers and the country has become much more authoritarian than it should be. The public does not trust New Labour 'Progress' politicians.

The public also does not trust Oxbridge career politicians generally, especially those who believe that going to a socially selective state-funded secondary school is enough to give them working class credibility. The Labour family dynasties can no longer get away with it. By all means go to Oxbridge but don't walk into an internship at Westminster or a cushy number at a Trade Union HQ. Do a working class job and persuade your workmates to elect you as their rep before thinking of standing for Parliament.

For you class warriors, your real enemy are the merit-based classes like the Russell Group Graduate Class and their sub-group the Russell Group Graduates who went to a Grammar or Socially Selective Faith School Class.

[speckledtangerine]

Here's one for our intellectually functioning types in the thread by George Monbiot in the Guardian:

"To vote No is to choose to live under a political system that sustains one of the rich world's highest levels of inequality and deprivation. That treats the natural world, civic life, equality, public health and effective public services as dispensable luxuries, and the freedom to exploit the poor as non-negotiable."

Agree?

Vote no?

[speckledtangerine]

Any up there heard of the expression "You'll be sorreeee". Has anyone thought that once a vote for independence is a YES and things go tits up, exactly who is going to pull your nuts out of the fire.

That's the too poor angle taken care of. You missed out too wee and too stupid.

2/10. Must do better.

[dvbuk55]

Any up there heard of the expression "You'll be sorreeee". Has anyone thought that once a vote for independence is a YES and things go tits up, exactly who is going to pull your nuts out of the fire.

That's the too poor angle taken care of. You missed out too wee and too stupid.

2/10. Must do better.

You know it strikes me that the YES vote are relying purely on positives rather like any election manifesto promises the earth and literally you end up eating it when the s**t hits the fan. You know the old saying "if it sounds too good to be true, then it is" so don't expect a land of milk and honey after the vote.

[speckledtangerine]

^^^^^^^^^^

And there's the too stupid.

[freelunch]

"Scotland will be more vulnerable to terrorist attacks in a “very dangerous and insecure world” if it votes for independence on Sept. 18"

Cameron is trying to create a link between the seperatists and terrorists
Don't you know the seperatists are in league with Vladimir Putin? Or Al-Qaeda will control the oil rigs?
The government in Kiev, erm I mean London, will never accept the result of any referendum that free Scots.
A "Yes" vote sees tanks outside Glasgow and Edinburgh begin shelling "terror cells".
Then Cameron's special forces down a Malaysian Airlines plane over the Scottish Highlands.
Blame it on the seperatists. Putin's "aid" ships take over Faslane giving DC an excuse to call up NATO.
Then the be-headings begin........

[speckledtangerine]

Listen dvbuk55 I'm not trying to take the piss and I'll assume you live southof the border. If not, there's no excuse for the ignorance. The English press left to right has portrayed Scotland as a withered foot forever. The unionist press up here likewise and the BBC and BBC Scotland? Go figure.


The internet will win this for the yes campaign. We didn't have it in 1979 (and if you are unaware i strongly recommended you Google it- scottish assembly referendum) and why not the mccrone report too.

I could give you many links to many reports you've never seen in your puff.

Why on earth would Westminster wish to hold onto a financial holocaust which, according to them, takes billions of pounds more than it puts in year after year after year? It can't be somewhere to park the nuclear subs can it? Phillip Hammond claims they could be shifted elsewhere for 600 million- a drop in the ocean, if you forgive the pun. It's not for canon fodder for the army as even the Scottish regiments of the British army need Fijian and samoan ringers to keep the numbers up.

Yeah, oil is a BIG factor. The elephant in the room is not the north sea though which everyone goes on about, but the shelf west of Shetland Cameron visited on the qt recently. My friend was recently sent home on full pay from Claire field until the referendum is over. It's enormous. It's unreported.

Haven't changed my view on the cwu though. The last figure i can get on Hayes' salary was 97k in 2007. A quick bit of addition sees a loss to the union of 1.5 million per annum on 8,000 members if we go. It's probably More.

I repeat, why would you keep something that is a financial drain? You're being lied too. More fool you if you believe it and fortunately Scottish people have had the debate, know the issues, can check the sources and make an informed decision.

I don't want my six month old trudging down to the london meat grinder in twenty years because we voted NO and we've been f****d over for the umpteenth time. I want him to be able to have a future here. And he will- when we vote yes.

[Tman]

I don't want my six month old trudging down to the london meat grinder in twenty years because we voted NO and we've been f****d over for the umpteenth time. I want him to be able to have a future here. And he will- when we vote yes.

If a Yes vote means an end to centuries of Scottish whining about poor wee mistreated Scotland, then please go for it.
Sadly a Yes vote probably won't end that though, and in two hundred years they'll still be crapping on about it, but then they'll doubtless add in theories about how the vote wasn't fair and "we weren't told the truth by Wezzzminsturrrr" and all the rest of the guff.
It's the Celtic way to blame everyone else for their problems, and that probably won't change anytime soon.

[dvbuk55]

Listen dvbuk55 I'm not trying to take the piss and I'll assume you live southof the border.

You assume right and truth be told I simply don't understand it, to an outsider it seems pointless, rather than remain part of a greater whole you are voting to become isolated despite the rhetoric and a rendition of Bonnie Scotland the oil and any revenues due will run out eventually and then what, not such a bright future which is within the lifetime of the next generation. Flag waving won't put food on the table nor encourage big business to invest with such a small economy.

[Newbie001]

Listen dvbuk55 I'm not trying to take the piss and I'll assume you live southof the border.

You assume right and truth be told I simply don't understand it, to an outsider it seems pointless, rather than remain part of a greater whole you are voting to become isolated despite the rhetoric and a rendition of Bonnie Scotland the oil and any revenues due will run out eventually and then what, not such a bright future which is within the lifetime of the next generation. Flag waving won't put food on the table nor encourage big business to invest with such a small economy.

"Isolated"
As opposed to two-three generations of people who have never worked in their lives with a massive dependence on welfare and food-banks. Every high street full of pound shops, pawn shops, book-makers and charity shops. A high percentage of all skilled workers leaving Scotland first chance they get. Some of the lowest life-dependency figures in Europe. Might sound like we're moaning a lot. But lets get real here, do you honestly think that Independence will make things any worse.
So what if the oil runs out. What big business would want to invest in a country with lots of free land space, abundant natural resources (excluding oil). And a hard-working population desperate for training and opportunity. Yeah we would really miss Westminster because of all they've done for us.

[dvbuk55]

But lets get real here, do you honestly think that Independence will make things any worse.:

Well time will tell. Rather like the CWU agreements, how attractive they sound leading up to the vote only to look differently post vote. Still it's your vote and your futures, I hope you won't all regret it.

[steve1873]

Ah the McCrone Report. Lets ask the man himself it was covered up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2F-H01Qm1I

Note his conclusion...

"So it is really very difficult to arrive at a firm view about how well off Scotland would be as an independent country, but it seems to be VERY UNLIKELY it would be better off"

[Gwynedd]

I have been following this thread with great interest.

All of you are obviously very passionate about the future of Scotland as am I.

No-one can predict what will happen in a independent Scotland despite all the promises and declarations of a brighter, richer more industrious and peace loving nation...Though why on earth does anyone believe politicians (of any party) when they are proven time and time again to be self serving liars.

I am a great believer in Better the Devil you know, than the Devil you don't! My reasons however for being a No voter are far more simple..
I am British...I have a parent born and raised in Beautiful Bonnie Scotland and one born South of the border in a very beautiful part of England. Why should I be forced to choose my nationality when I have great british blood of both sides running through my veins? I, myself was born in England and because my dad willingly serving in the British Armed Forces for his Queen and country I never actually grew up there, instead I was raised mainly in Germany..moving back to Scotland once my dad had happily served his 25 years..

I am British and proud to be so - VOTE NO!

[dvbuk55]

instead I was raised mainly in Germany..moving back to Scotland once my dad had happily served his 25 years..

I am British and proud to be so - VOTE NO!

And that I believe is why you would vote no. I am British and like your dad served in the army not just in Germany but in many other theatres too and as such am not parochial. Was I a Scot I would vote NO too.

[newtimes]

Bill Goes Ballistic At Better Together