North/South divide?

[POSTMAN]

Ok don't cane me on this,i'm only the messenger.

Through various ballots,pay deals,way forward ect London at times have recommended a NO vote and the vote goes through anyway.
Now,and just hold tight before you scream at me,i have been told by various people in my various offices that it's,and i'll say this carefully,the Northerners that have voted it in.
You guys in your little rural offices out in the sticks(thats a quote btw)

The reason being you guys don't need as much money to live on like us in the smoke,and a deals a deal to you lot.

Now,i was never too sure on it and in truth i never believed it 100%,i mean at the end of the day there are London numptys that would vote yes for the various deals anyway.

But since being on here i find that it's deffo not the case and in fact i'm still pulling guys up at my place about it.

Interested in your thoughts about the above,and also why do you think these things get through anyway.

[side_door]

The management has a much stronger influence on the smaller office.

Also, the union does not exert itself to get out to the smaller offices. Consequently, the strongest voice in those offices is that of the management. Even where there might be one or two strong voices in opposition these might not be enough to get people to actually think about what management plans will actually mean. In the larger offices there may be dozens of dissenting voices who will act together to persuade their colleagues and actually discuss the implications -- as realities.

Management pushes forward with the message relentlessly "this will happen" and if no one says "no it won't" or "it doesn't have to." People accept the inevitability argument which RM puts forward. This, I think, is why SDD went through.

I do not think things are quite the same now. I feel a definite opposition to RM's plans and an anger at the string of unkept promises they have made.

I do not know what things are like in London. But, I imagine lots of fairly large offices with strong links between them, and plenty of dissenting voices. Of course, we have those in the larger offices here, but we do not have them in the smaller ones and there are not such strong links between the smaller offices. The union is felt, in our office, to be something distant. People are looking for a lead from the union -- just one visit might provide the impetus to at least discuss the arguments and formulate a position for the office as a whole. It is all well and good to say that the people in such offices should organise themselves better - but they don't and it is not just them who lose out. We are here discussing the consequences of what happens when people individually assume, no one's going to vote for this without actually finding out.

Of course this doesn't let me off the hook. I have a responsibility to try and get things going where I work. But where there isn't someone like me, what happens then?

Anyway I would be interested to hear exactly what it is like in London. Are my views totally mistaken and is there some other ingredient that perhaps we Northeners (though I'm from the midlands) are missing.

[POSTMAN]

Interesting points there sidey.

I'm thinking that this dispute the rule of the,north/south little offices/big offices will go by the wayside as it's so serious and we'll get the yes vote.
Part of that is because the Union is working harder than ever before,they're earning their wages this time.

Maybe in the old ones that wasn't the case and a lot of stuff wasn't getting to people.

I said this in another post.

We have to forget what's happened in the past,and yes HQ can be pants most of the time,get on and win what we are fighting now.
Then go all guns balzing and sort HQ out.

Too many offices are being isolated,too many people are not hearing enough,and too many people are not being educated.
That needs to change,the communication in The COMMUNICATION workers Union is a joke.
Lets hope we get through this one,then get ourselves together,ALL of us for the next one.

And i think that's a nail on the head scenario,it will need sorting.

Down London i would presume it would be the same as in other big citys like where you are,Staffs and the like where in all fairness it's common sence,because we get the info.
Communication is good cause our area guys are on the ball and constantly out and about,especially now.
On here i am reading posts where offices have no union presence no reps,nothing.
The area guys around the country(some of them before i get slated) need to buck their ideas up an like you say,a visit from a rep will do more good than harm.

In all fairness i think that over the years the Union have had it relatively easy,apart from the way forward and to a certain extent the SDD they haven't had much to do.
Although i'm sure a few hardliners will disagree with the above.

I don't think the union were properly prepared for this,this really is serious s**t,and it's only now that the brown stuff has hit the fan that they are working overtime on it.
We should of been properly prepared,there should of been mass visits around the lesser know areas.

I think we'll get away with it and get a yes vote,but lessons need to be learnt from it.
Forget wars,forget this and forget that,lets spend some of our subs on US,recruiting,and lets not have one single office in the country without at least some sort of union presence,or someone we can get info to.

Because after this fight,they'll be one next year,then the year after and so on and so on.


One last thing,it's too bloody cold outside the M25

[naeagain]

My "small" office is about 60 to 80% of staff will go on strike! Think there getting pissed off with the managers non stop propganda! In my long service i can't remember the staff being so pissed off!

[iow1]

the iow is dependent on portsmouth. if they strike then we won't get any mail. i think over here they think that they don't need to put a yes as p/mouth will do it for them. speaking to many blokes they are not bothered about a pay rise as they get tax credit's ( me too 3 kids ). we are just hacked off with the new times. wife will have to give up part time job.

however i urge my fellow iow'ers to put that x where it counts. we should not be treated like s***. i am overworked and underpaid

[ROCKY]

IF US FEW IN OUR LITTLE OFFICES VOTE 1 WAY
AND YOU LOADS IN THE BIG OFFICE VOTE ANOTHER WHOS GOING TO WIN
SOME SMALL UNITS DO TOE THE LINE I THINK MOST DEALS GO THROUGH WITH THOSE PEEPS WITH THEIR MINDS ON THE SHORT TERM GAIN,THAT SMALL JUICY CARROT SYNDROME

[pad]

If we vote 'NO' now it won't matter where you work. A Mail Centre, RDC,MDEC,PDO<DO or SPDO. Anywhere in the Country. This time they want everyone. They used the cover of 'London-weighting' and the sftermath of the 'Way-forward' to put SDD in. HOWEVER who could justify most second deliveries? THIS IS A NATIONAL PUBLIC SERVICE if TNT/DHL/A.N.other attack 'cheap' city centre areas LONDON BIRMINGHAM MANCHESTER etc there will be 'no money' for our members in rural Areas to continue working. THere will always be politics in any democratic Union. Don't let it distract you from the issues........and don't believe for one minute the North are voting NO pad

[L Tommo]

Ive brought this up before, this point of view is something ive heard from HQ Reps. And i never believed it fully.. The fact that the North overall in smaller Units wont vote for something that is more prevalent down south, The Obvious one that was mentioned was the London weighting/Wayforward fiasco... They.RM done it again.. Divide and conquer.. Barstewards..... We must not get pulled into this trap ever again.. The points of POSTMAN is correct, Pay needed in London to live is much higher than say in Notts or Newcastle.. FACT.. Ive traveled this country as many have and London is one of the most expensive place to live and work in the world... RM dangled the London Weighting figures infront of posties in places oop north and i can understand people
feeling, "NO WHY SHOULD THEY GET MORE THAN MOST." HUMAN NATURE... RM used this to there advantage and done us!!! Gits!!!!
So this time we all know, Or we all SHOULD know the past issues between North and South cant deflect away from the BIG VOTE/PICTURE!!!!

The head count to sway the vote in the North is far greater than the south, (LONDON AREA) as politics, trade unions/Strikes, Community spirit is far more tighter than the South.. Has History proves. Influx of immigrants in the South of England and with Casual Labour has hurt the Union Solidarity no end..

I dont want to make this a prejudice piece BUT the fact that the Union has let RM use cheap Labour and encouraged a "more the merryer attitude" to gain more Subs IS WRONG ON OUR PART....

People from all colours, creads, and countrys have made this business a great job and has added much to the country.. This is a FACT..
We need to look after all the people who have stood up in the past and been counted.. Not abuse there loyalty... New peoples attitudes are not the same over all, I say NEW PEOPLE AS IN people who have never been thru a STRIKE, a UNION DISPUTE, SEEN MARCHES FOR RIGHTS. HOW CAN THEY FEEL THE SAME????? WE NEED TO HELP THEM KNOW WHAT RM USED TO STAND FOR AND THE UNIONS SHOULD STAND FOR..

BY US THE CWU HELPING THEM UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES OF THE VOTE AND ITS TRUE MEANING NOT THE RM PROPAGANDA, JUST LIKE THE POST I GOT TODAY.. a red card with "DONT LET OTHER PEOPLE DECIDE YOUR FUTURE" HAVE YOU GOT THIS YET??? ON IT,,, 2.5 PAY RISE, £800 DIVIDEND AND 50:50 PRODUCTIVITY.. ?????????? DONT MENTION THE LOSS OF JOBS DOES IT?????

GIVE THIS RED CARD JUST THAT.. A RED CARD, OFF!!!