The impact of independence on Scottish postal services

[Danelectro]

No matter what side of the debate you sit on this ridiculous idea that Scotland's currency can be decided by Salmond or any of the twats from Westminster is completely laughable.

and that's Salmonds point that when debt liabilities and the £500 million trade charges are in the mix then its likely they will be told to spit out the dummy.

But its not the only option and a new currency or currency board is no big deal and Salmond should have pointed that out.Theres criticism about the currency board option as theres no central bank which role is to apparently ease any financial crisis in the banking sector etc but in reality private investors through private banks see no problem taking risks at borrowing at near 0% when they know the state through the central banks are gonna bail them out rather then being made aware that they will be left to fail if they take on too much risk which would be the case with no central bank.

[enskied]

it is a huge issue, i have genuine fears for my family and friends in Scotland. No matter which way the vote goes i would want them to thrive..but it does change the the fabric of the country, stitch by stitch. I feel as a northerner very remote and disenfranchised from London, so do my family in Wiltshire a mere stones throw away. I don't know, I just feel that we all need to unite and stand up to the bullingdon club.

[Tman]

No matter what side of the debate you sit on this ridiculous idea that Scotland's currency can be decided by Salmond etc etc.

And that's the point. The odious little wa*k-stain Salmond, for all his years of preparation, can't say anything concrete regarding Scotland's future currency. Pretty fundamental, and with a matter of weeks to go now he ought to be more certain in his plans. The Yes refrain of "They can't stop us from having the pound...etc etc" is worn to the point of comedy now, and while the likes of Cameroon etc are no financial experts, enough people and organisations who are financially-savvy and/or concerned have said it either won't happen or won't be to Scotland's advantage.
Even the most blue-faced tartan-waver must by now have have gathered that Scotland's future prosperity is dependant on the value of it's currency rather than how much oil is in reserve or how much of the UK debt it can renege on.
Bringing in personalities like the idiot Boris Johnson etc to the argument is irrelevant; he'll be history quickly enough but Scotland will still be the cold barren place at the NW of the EU needing financial support.

[Danelectro]

The Yes refrain of "They can't stop us from having the pound...etc etc" is worn to the point of comedy now.

I presume you mean a currency union or sterling zone as any country in the world can adopt the pound if they wish to do so.
FACT.

Scotland's future prosperity is dependant on the value of it's currency rather than how much oil is in reserve or how much of the UK debt it can renege on.

Scotland or any other countrys prosperity is not solely dependant on its currency value.As you well know if the pound is too strong you may get cheap holiday cash but exports are more expensive etc etc so currency value is not set in stone and it is just one of many factors that shape an economy.

As for reneging on the debt that is exactly the scenario George Osborne has created by ruling out a currency union in any negotiations and his announcement caused a bit of panic in the markets as they know amongst many other reasons that the loss of tax revenue from 5 million people to pay off their share of the debt is not good news for them as Fishtank pointed out.


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[Danelectro]

FFS!!! Price of cheese! How about what currency we are going to use to pay for that cheese before we even begin to discuss its price eh!

Vote No

FFS what? it will be the pound in or out of a sterling zone or a new currency.

Anyway Steve 1873

Is it not the case you are voting NO on the basis you are 'Rangers Minded' ..and I wouldn't want to take any economic advice from your liquidated club...and bye the way im not 'Celtic Minded' either so I guess im 'Anti sectarian minded'

[steve1873]

FFS!!! Price of cheese! How about what currency we are going to use to pay for that cheese before we even begin to discuss its price eh!

Vote No

FFS what? it will be the pound in or out of a sterling zone or a new currency.

Anyway Steve 1873

Is it not the case you are voting NO on the basis you are 'Rangers Minded' ..and I wouldn't want to take any economic advice from your liquidated club...and bye the way im not 'Celtic Minded' either so I guess im 'Anti sectarian minded'

Yes that is what it is, the football club I support is the reason I am voting no! Grow up!

[Danelectro]

Yes that is what it is, the football club I support is the reason I am voting no! Grow up!

fair doos but theres plenty on here that are.So apologies for guessing wrong.

So why are you voting No? Is it because theres no currency decision yet and that means the whole economics of an Independent Scotland is debunked ? I don't see a strong argument for that being the case just a lot of shouting about Currency and Mc Bollix jibes from the No side.

[Tman]

I presume you mean a currency union or sterling zone as any country in the world can adopt the pound if they wish to do so.
FACT.

Tripe. If it was that easy every banana republic would make the US dollar it's official currency.

Scotland or any other countrys prosperity is not solely dependant on its currency value.As you well know if the pound is too strong you may get cheap holiday cash but exports are more expensive etc etc so currency value is not set in stone and it is just one of many factors that shape an economy.

This is more than just currency exchange rates, it's about how much the world's financial sector "values" an independent Scotland's ability to pay it's bills and keep running as a viable country, a value severely dented if Wan*er MacSlob's theory of "we won't pay the debt if we can't have the pooound" was to be implemented. Don't think the World Bank, IMF etc will be too happy lending more, should the need arise, if the last lot of debts haven't been cleared.

[steve1873]

Yes that is what it is, the football club I support is the reason I am voting no! Grow up!

fair doos but theres plenty on here that are.So apologies for guessing wrong.

So why are you voting No? Is it because theres no currency decision yet and that means the whole economics of an Independent Scotland is debunked ? I don't see a strong argument for that being the case just a lot of shouting about Currency and Mc Bollix jibes from the No side.

No currency union - no financial services industry (or massively reduced) in Scotland. That is over 100,000 jobs at risk.

What is being sold to the peopl of Scotland is entirely based upon agreeing a formal currency union. That can ot be agreed upon by rUK without an active political union. Guess what, we have that. It is called the United Kingdom.

Pensions - how can they protect pensions while at the same time basing the figures upon attracting an additional 22000 immigrant workers to Scotland (per year) in order to pay for the ageing population? Where are these people going to live and at what cost to the Scottish tax-payer? How does that aggresive immigration policy balance with the requirement of a political union with rUK and continued open borders? Give you a clue, it doesn't.

EU - what is the time-frame for our likely acceptance to the EU and will we be force to use the Euro as a condition of acceptance as all new entrants must? The opt-outs which the UK favourably benefits from, will Scotland continue to receive these opt-outs?

NATO - how does the stance of the SG's in regard to nuclear weapons balance with the requirement of all members to acknowledge NATO's nuclear umbrella? I will predict you saying there are a number of countries with no njclear capability in NATO. Fine, how many of those were actively attempting to remove a large portion of NATO's nuclear deterrant from its territory at the time of application?

[Danelectro]

it's about how much the world's financial sector "values" an independent Scotland's ability to pay it's bills and keep running as a viable country.

So there you are! you have just admitted that its not just about currency but about what you have just outlined above and on that criteria an Independent Scotland is judged favourably.

[steve1873]

it's about how much the world's financial sector "values" an independent Scotland's ability to pay it's bills and keep running as a viable country.

So there you are! you have just admitted that its not just about currency but about what you have just outlined above and on that criteria an Independent Scotland is judged favourably.

Wow, the typical cybernat tactic of copying and pasting part of a quote and thus taking it out of context is alive and well I see.

Tell me, will it continue to be judged favourably in that regard if it goes headlong in to plans to not take on our share of the UK's debt?

Because I would say that is intrinsically linked to the currency union issue.

[dvbuk55]

Well the vote grows closer but from a purely open mind I would bet on a huge NO vote to independence. It may sound an attractive proposition but it truly is a suck it and see gamble from an outsiders point of view.

[steve1873]

Well the vote grows closer but from a purely open mind I would bet on a huge NO vote to independence. It may sound an attractive proposition but it truly is a suck it and see gamble from an outsiders point of view.

That is what it is exactly - A GAMBLE.

A solution in search of a problem.

[Danelectro]

No currency union - no financial services industry (or massively reduced) in Scotland. That is over 100,000 jobs at risk.
but I think As you know we have lost 60000 jobs in a short period in Royal Mail with more to come and we are only half way through the Coalition austerity programme which will cause massive redundancies there are challenges like these to be met in any country so nothing new there. The UK hasn't a great record of dealing with these challenges for the benefit of all. .

What is being sold to the peopl of Scotland is entirely based upon agreeing a formal currency union. That can ot be agreed upon by rUK without an active political union. Guess what, we have that. It is called the United Kingdom.

We are not voting on endorsing the SNPs white paper but voting for Independence though ive no doubt there can be arrangements put in place to create a sterling zone where interest rates can mutually set but of course your right it has to be agreed.I prefer the other currency options as they give control over the whole economy and im sure a party in a Scottish parliament that adopts that position(Labour post independence) may think its a vote winner.

Pensions - how can they protect pensions while at the same time basing the figures upon attracting an additional 22000 immigrant workers to Scotland (per year) in order to pay for the ageing population? Where are these people going to live and at what cost to the Scottish tax-payer? How does that aggresive immigration policy balance with the requirement of a political union with rUK and continued open borders? Give you a clue, it doesn't.

This is also similar to the policy in the UK so I see no difference..Immigration does have benefits but until theres a living wage for all it can also be used to undercut wages and give the corporations the free movement of labour they desire.Regarding pensions the UK state pension is the lowest in Europe even in comparison to Hungary and Slovenia,are we to believe that that's the best we can do?
EU - what is the time-frame for our likely acceptance to the EU and will we be force to use the Euro as a condition of acceptance as all new entrants must? The opt-outs which the UK favourably benefits from, will Scotland continue to receive these opt-outs?
Theres a lot of politics surrounding the question of EU membership,the cleptocrats in Brussels seem to prefer the UK remains the same so theres a lot of noise but not much light but if it became a reality it does seem pretty crazy that it wouldn't benefit the EU to accept Scotland.Me I couldn't give a toss and always thought like Bob Crow and Tony Benn that the EU is totally undemocratic and with the TTIP trade agreement being foisted upon us I see no real reform on the horizon.I think Jim Sillars idea of joining EFTA should be thoroughly looked in to but it wont at the moment because Salmond is First Minister.

NATO - how does the stance of the SG's in regard to nuclear weapons balance with the requirement of all members to acknowledge NATO's nuclear umbrella? I will predict you saying there are a number of countries with no njclear capability in NATO. Fine, how many of those were actively attempting to remove a large portion of NATO's nuclear deterrant from its territory at the time of application?


Its a miracle that there hasn't been a nuclear disaster thus far in the planets history according to various reports and if one goes off any where in the world its more than likely tatties for the lot of us. Meanwhile the nuclear weapons industry doesn't seem to be deterring much wars but it is making huge profits for the usual suspects.If an independent Scotland is to be punished for giving up its nuclear weapons and its army navy and airforce is surplus to requirements then so be it and it is true that NATO expects nuclear sharing from its member states but so far Norway is still Nuclear free but a statement released by NATO would clear the whole thing up but they havent. Me im not a fan of NATO and neither is SWEDEN the last time I looked.

[Danelectro]

[

So there you are! you have just admitted that its not just about currency but about what you have just outlined above and on that criteria an Independent Scotland is judged favourably.

Wow, the typical cybernat tactic of copying and pasting part of a quote and thus taking it out of context is alive and well I see.

.[/quote]

your havering that's exactly what he said in context.