Question for a Union Guru

Punk · Post by **Punk** » 04 May 2007, 21:35

In the 18 years i've worked for RM we've always been expected to change wheels, even the women drivers, its like part of the territory at my office. I thought it was the same everywhere.

The workshop guys only really do the servicing and repairs, they're 15 odd miles away, they dont come out for breakdowns on duty either, we get the AA sent out to us, which can mean good wait.

Cheers

Post by **Zorro** » 05 May 2007, 07:42

If it is a practice that is common in your office, then you are covered by AOD and it should not be used against you.

andycprice · Post by **andycprice** » 20 May 2007, 19:52

you are not allowed to change a wheel for a start so Royal mail have contributed to your accident.

AOD are normally discounted unless blame can be aportioned to you.

AOD is not an AOD if it was investigated within 48 hours and you were correctly informed it was not an AOD. If the AOD was not disputed then it is an AOD regardless.

I personally would "no win no fee" for your injury

Post by **POSTMAN** » 20 May 2007, 21:24

AOD is not an AOD if it was investigated within 48 hours and you were correctly informed it was not an AOD. If the AOD was not disputed then it is an AOD regardless.

Ok can you elaborate a bit more,with that i mean this,i understand sort of what you are saying.
But does this mean then that if the AOD is NOT investigated within 48hrs it goes down as an AOD then it CAN'T be held against us in a stage warning so it is AUTOMATICALY ignored.

Geordie · Post by **Geordie** » 20 May 2007, 22:32

Don't fall for the 'you contributed to your accident so we're counting it scenario', as that's not what the procedure says.

The agreement/procedure says absence due to accidents on duty are normally discounted. This should be raised at your sick interview.

If the gaffer issues the stage, put a grievance in on the basis of 'unfair application of the attendance procedure'.

And do NOT sign the letter that gives you the warning, as by doing so, it infers you agree with the decision.

andycprice · Post by **andycprice** » 21 May 2007, 14:21

Postman, that is correct, the managers have a letter they must issue to you that they don't believe it was an AOD. If this letter is not issued it is an AOD by default. Bear with me and I will post tomorrow when I get the relevant paperwork for you. I actually won several cases purely on this point. I asked the manager to produce the disputed AOD letter and they looked blank.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 21 May 2007, 14:22

andycprice wrote:Postman, that is correct, the managers have a letter they must issue to you that they don't believe it was an AOD. If this letter is not issued it is an AOD by default. Bear with me and I will post tomorrow when I get the relevant paperwork for you. I actually won several cases purely on this point. I asked the manager to produce the disputed AOD letter and they looked blank.

Cheers mate any info would be great,as a lot of us get done by this.

andycprice · Post by **andycprice** » 21 May 2007, 14:27

No problem. I'll be logging back on tomorrow with information you need.

kjbosco · Post by **kjbosco** » 21 May 2007, 15:43

Can anyone tell me where you stand if you have an accident in your office before your duty start time. I've heard on many occasions that your not insured before your start time, is this true. Would it be classed as AOD or not. Reason for asking is we do have alot of staff starting before duty time, which if your not insured, would be a serious H&S prob, which again would be the mangers prob/duty to sort out. Can anyone clear this up.

andycprice · Post by **andycprice** » 21 May 2007, 15:45

I can clear that up.

You sign on the signing on sheet when you arrive..................you're insured! sinple as that. A manager tells you different is misleading you.

andycprice · Post by **andycprice** » 21 May 2007, 18:00

From the managers absence management guidelines..

"When it is disputed that an absence was related to an AOD, the line manager should write to the individual to advise them"

(Letter Appendix 8a).."This is just to inform you that I am seeking advice on whether or not this particular absence should be counted"

They must then seek advice from the EHS and the area safety rep.

This is the important bit..

"Line managers should aim to resolve any dispute within two working weeks of the persons return to work"

"If after a further period of two weeks thematter is still unresolved it should be brought to a conclusion in the individuals favour"

Post by **POSTMAN** » 21 May 2007, 18:16

andycprice wrote:From the managers absence management guidelines..

"When it is disputed that an absence was related to an AOD, the line manager should write to the individual to advise them"

(Letter Appendix 8a).."This is just to inform you that I am seeking advice on whether or not this particular absence should be counted"

They must then seek advice from the EHS and the area safety rep.

This is the important bit..

"Line managers should aim to resolve any dispute within two working weeks of the persons return to work"

"If after a further period of two weeks thematter is still unresolved it should be brought to a conclusion in the individuals favour"

So basically the chances are hardly ANY Manager will go down this route so nearly every AOD everywhere should now be discounted.
Have i got that right.

And which area safety rep is it ours or theirs.

andycprice · Post by **andycprice** » 21 May 2007, 18:24

You got it.

I should have put "area safety advisor" and it's theirs. The reason for this is to make sure they are doing their "duty of care"

Post by **POSTMAN** » 21 May 2007, 19:56

Andy,i'd be very suprised if many people knew about this,i can guarantee that my screws don't.
This is so bloody helpful,thanks a lot mate.

andycprice · Post by **andycprice** » 22 May 2007, 16:37

you're welcome.

I have a whole folder of management dealing with absence. It even had idiot proof pre written letters for managers to just insert names and dates.

ROYALMAILCHAT

Question for a Union Guru

Accidents on duty..before starting time?