Message from Sue Whalley Effective management of overtime

[Budfrog]

• Any unplanned overtime claims must be pre-authorised verbally or in writing by the individual’s line manager. Additional hours worked must be agreed before they are performed.

How is that even possible in the real world? You feel you are going to be over, but are unsure by how much - you then estimate. Say you underestimate, does that mean any additional overtime will be unpaid? They are aware that this illegal eh!?!?

This will simply encourage staff to over estimate the amount of ED needed.

[ballee]

Whalley by name wally by nature. 552s went out with the ark shows the experience she has. Who in this day and age gets so much overtime that the 24 hour rule applies!. How would ms Whalley pre plan for a van breakdown or an Aod, this is case of when you thought things could get no worse!!

[dvbuk55]

Well there's talking out of your arse and apparently it's easy now to write a letter from the same location

[FinishOnTime]

We've been forecasting overtime before we go out for years in our office. Kind of works, but it sometimes means people have two arguments with their gaffer instead of just the one. Going the wrong way now though, every penny is argued about, and "managers" are using ridiculous arguments not to pay overtime.

[worktotime]

if shes that bothered why not bring in clocking in machines , clock in and clock off easy its there instead of filling in bits of paper all over the place ie signing on sheets , docket sheets, its not rocket science.

[Newbie001]

if shes that bothered why not bring in clocking in machines , clock in and clock off easy its there instead of filling in bits of paper all over the place ie signing on sheets , docket sheets, its not rocket science.

All those early starters would love that. If people actually started doing their job properly then I'd imagine it would cost RM a fortune. Can't see them doing it to be honest.

[chrisj]

They will introduce clocking in and out in the near future if work continue to decline and most posties in delivery are finishing more than 1 hour or even hours before their finish time.

Presently, it suits them fine to allow unofficial flex-time and people doing unpaid OT but for them to really reduce cost, they will have to be radical in the way they make us work our time...

Question is will that be before the T&C protection grace period of 4+- years or much sooner?

[westham000]

Sue whalley recently picked up 72,890 additional free shares as part of Royal Mail incentive scheme. I for one, do a lot of o/t. At our office we get 6 hours to cover a duty on SA , and four hours on the green. Never go over and claim extra on my walk . If on the rare occasion I finish 1 hour early and happen to have a full belated, what sue whalley is saying is that I should deduct an hour because I have started my o/t in my own duty time. Tough! If that is the case I will not do any o/t on that day. And leave it for management to take it out instead. What do you think the real reason Royal Mail want us all to use PDA'S, so they can micro manage us and keep track of exactly how many hours we work right up to the minutes and seconds!

[dvbuk55]

Sue whalley recently picked up 72,890 additional free shares as part of Royal Mail incentive scheme. I for one, do a lot of o/t. At our office we get 6 hours to cover a duty on SA , and four hours on the green. Never go over and claim extra on my walk . If on the rare occasion I finish 1 hour early and happen to have a full belated, what sue whalley is saying is that I should deduct an hour because I have started my o/t in my own duty time. Tough! If that is the case I will not do any o/t on that day. And leave it for management to take it out instead. What do you think the real reason Royal Mail want us all to use PDA'S, so they can micro manage us and keep track of exactly how many hours we work right up to the minutes and seconds!

Well the answer is don't do any overtime on that day. If overtime is so prevalent maybe you need more staff or fewer part timers. The agreement is clear WORK for every hour paid.

[old-postie]

remember that applies the other way as well

We must be paid for every hour we work

[dvbuk55]

remember that applies the other way as well

We must be paid for every hour we work

Absolutely you work 39 hours you're paid for 39 hours - anything over and above that should be agreed and paid on the same basis i.e. 1 hours work = 1 hours pay - the problem lies in people expecting 6 hours pay for 3 hours work "because they need the money, are entitled to it, it's always been that way, if they want it done they have to pay whatever I ask) and in a nutshell that's not good productivity and has been highlighted as such.

[chrisj]

Yes, but, No, but...

I am more concerned that any office is still paying 6 full hours for covering a round and on SA? Wow!

The amount paid in my office has gone done to closer to 4.45-5 hours but lets get real, it will be hard to expect OT to start precisely after the official finishing time.

I am all for use of PDA and working at a reasonable pace and better rate of pay for OT, that way people might be willing to stay out till 6 pm... More jobs might be created this way but RM might start to use agency staff on zero-contract hours

How will dvbuk suggest managers goes about covering a walk if we are start to take our time and finish closer to 3 pm?

[dvbuk55]

Yes, but, No, but...

I am more concerned that any office is still paying 6 full hours for covering a round and on SA? Wow!

The amount paid in my office has gone done to closer to 4.45-5 hours but lets get real, it will be hard to expect OT to start precisely after the official finishing time.

I am all for use of PDA and working at a reasonable pace and better rate of pay for OT, that way people might be willing to stay out till 6 pm... More jobs might be created this way but RM might start to use agency staff on zero-contract hours

How will dvbuk suggest managers goes about covering a walk if we are start to take our time and finish closer to 3 pm?

Quite simply the mail has to fail - what shock horror. Managers have to stop being soft, stand up and be counted and insist that their managers face reality if costs are to be cut. If staff don't want 3 hours work for 3 hours pay then it's good night Vienna the mail goes out the next day or indeed agency staff are brought in - the choices are there if you seriously want to cut costs and stop the OT blackmail.

[chrisj]

Failures will lead to fines from OFCOM and will smack of incompetence - RM will not go for that.

I know you do not do OT but I do not really think there is much blackmailing going on as you put it. People that do delivery OT work really hard for the money...

Just because someone wants to rush around to finish early so that he/she is not out there till very late does not essentially mean that the person is cheating.

You might have been with RM a very long time but there is less and less Spanish practices going on. In fact, like I mentioned before the OT hours are being reduced gradually - we do not get 6 hours in my office. However, most people except the newbies and those on low hours that are desperate for money will ever work for precisely how much the delivery takes.

I also remember you saying that you mean people should be paid for how long the job takes - that is different if a postman is delivering normal rounds in normal hours. You make one trip, puts everything in the van and deliver.

But on OT, you will often have to come back to the office, turn for packets, bag up, find out where you are going including dead walking because managers think a row of mail on the frame runs like a loop or concurrently. You might need to find a van especially if your driver will be using your regular van for collection, drive to destination (could be in other direction and way from the office), deliver with dead walks, come back with returns and PDA, return van (could be to multi-storey), add extra break, sign off...

Now if 4 different people take one row each and they go through similar process - the delivery time overall will end up being really close to 6 hours.

This is an RM problem but I think you should try not to see it as an issue in delivery just because you do not do OT or need to do OT.

There is far more wasteful OT especially SA going on in Mail Centres and MDEC than in delivery. In those situation, sometimes, posties do not even have to do much work or none at all if the work is not there. I should add that those situations are slowly changing with the use of Temps and RM really into cost cutting.

Clocking cards and PDA monitoring and better and more flexible use of staff will cut cost down easily but are RM prepared to be radical?

[dvbuk55]

It is incompetence because delivery offices aren't staffed properly, deliveries are not organised properly, the staff are not managed properly.