Is the CWU finished?

[buzzer]

I'm confused about what is going on in this country. If we lose this dispute with RM, will the union be finished? Also, there are not many things more important than the mail, and yet we barely get a mention in the news. Is this freedom of the press? I would be interested if anyone has any comments on these 2 points.

[krooserman1802]

I have ...but I dont want to talk about it...lol

[Crackerjackpencil]

I f we lose this, then the union is buggered in a major fashion, and it may take years to get back the support it has today....As for the media coverage, it's been shocking, but then again I wouldn't put there being instructions from a certain London address with a 10 in it having something to do with that. labout want to severe all ties with the Unions.....Save the finacial ones....I say it's time we and the other Unions got together and threatened to pull the plug en masse. I personally like to see gordon Brown go from Brown to Brown trousers if that ever happened.

[Wild Rover]

In short

The CWU members are relying on the union to get them a good deal. If they don't, out of pissed-offness, they'll cancel their fees with the CWU, with the union then short of cash. Not to mention a powerless union

The press. Labour government, not interested in our woes. Big media tend to side with the government, so won't touch our story with a barge pole.

24 hours ago, we were headline news - today, i'm struggling to find any mention of us. And, it's a quiet news day!

[Tread]

The only way we'll loose this is if we crack and Leighton and co will try every thing to achieve that.

[meweavy]

The only way we'll loose this is if we crack and Leighton and co will try every thing to achieve that.

if the union cracks more like.our jobs and future are in the hands of the union,if they agree a deal with royal mail or if they buckle we are all f****d.to be honest these talks aint looking good.whats all this shite about flexibility on door to doors and working out times for each office...thats a green light for royal mail to f**k us over straight away,if the union want that.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

If the union loose this they are finished. One of the aims of Royal Mails flexibility plans is to have a local CWU/RM connection and a CWU HQ/RM HQ connection and nothing in between. That means nothing from your rep to the PEC, no area reps no divisional reps etc. If RM get their way then the union would be toothless and at the behest of weak and isolated reps being bullied or co-opted by overbearing and corrupt managers. Or where there is a strong rep that office will be labelled militant and they would try everything to get rid of the strong union presence.

This is one reason why this is a must win battle.

[mailjock]

We ain't even bloody started yet mate lol

[IWW Fellow Worker]

We ain't even bloody started yet mate lol

Is right! Do they think everyone will just turn into work, tip our caps to the DUM and screws and act like a bunch of servile strike breakers? I don't think so.

[catch]

I'm confused about what is going on in this country. If we lose this dispute with RM, will the union be finished? Also, there are not many things more important than the mail, and yet we barely get a mention in the news. Is this freedom of the press? I would be interested if anyone has any comments on these 2 points.

I think if you lose this dispute it won't only be the CWU that's finished - it's going to have a knock on effect on the rest of the public sector i.e. other unions will bottle it and workers in those jobs don't have a history of unofficial action, and that in turn will give private sector employers more confidence in carrying through similar attacks.

As to freedom of the press - it's not that they're restricted from reporting on it, it's that they're run by the same interests as every other company (and the BBC is ultimately responsible to the government in the last instance - and look what they're doing to their own news staff this week!).

[Spartacus]

The union was said to be finished a few years back when we got that NO vote, what saved it then?

Wildcats, widespread unofficial industrial action bought Royal Mail back to its senses and they stood back from doing whatever they wanted.

The union is far from finished, and this dispute still has a long way to go.

[CHARLIE BEAR]

Comrades,

I refuse to tug at my forelock to anyone. If we lose this? That could only mean one of two things. Either the CWU leaders sell us down the river or our fellow members start crossing picket lines.

We must not and shall not let that happen.

Charlie Bear

P.S. Bugger what the Tory press say!

[norbet colon]

If the union loose this they are finished. One of the aims of Royal Mails flexibility plans is to have a local CWU/RM connection and a CWU HQ/RM HQ connection and nothing in between. That means nothing from your rep to the PEC, no area reps no divisional reps etc. If RM get their way then the union would be toothless and at the behest of weak and isolated reps being bullied or co-opted by overbearing and corrupt managers. Or where there is a strong rep that office will be labelled militant and they would try everything to get rid of the strong union presence.

This is one reason why this is a must win battle.

Absolutely correct ! we were out every week for 6 weeks with the NUR over the supposedly "steam age " machinery of negotiation -the chain of union command was L.D.C. Local Departmental Committee with it's own branch then Sectional Council, then Paid Union Regional Organiser , then Regional & National Executive . RM have already weakened CMA's structure and want the same for the CWU . These plans are what RM call best practice in Modern Industry , very vague and deliberately ambigious .
The new system was staff rep , profit centre , the paid Regional Organiser , then the Union National Executive . Also very importantly if functions are split into Sectors, staff will be more isolated and relying on possibly a staff rep that makes Jimmy Hoffa look straight and couldn't win a raffle . At one time the NUR/RMT Divisional Organiser was only used in emergency e.g. say if a guard had been caught fiddling etc , the divisional organiser in Liverpool had a patch which covered the whole of North Wales & North West whilst the RMT had old duffers at Unity House , London doing nothing & out of touch with it's subs paying members .
The local rep had to run everything past the Divisional Organiser to cover his back , Management would 1 Bully the staff rep 2 Promote Him or Her to Neutralise him/her .
I've seen instances at Parcelfarce Lancaster where the managers were deliberately not paying O/T money and the rep was miles away .Parcelfarce got teamworking through whilst you boys had to go on strike to successfully stop it .
There was a badly handled case at Manchester Piccadilly where in a badly handled by both sides case , the strong but heavily SWP influenced reps were sacked by dismissal letters sent by Taxi. If any reps wanted to make issues of anything they were threatened with more of the same . They won their ET's but the Railway appealed and this litigation is done deliberately to weaken the RMT financially . You'd have meetings but things were just imposed anyway.

[Trends Guild]

Ok..I'm not a postie, I'm just a whinging customer, but reading your threads with interest.

Many of you seem dissatisfied with the way the CWU represent you, and I can see why. And on reading the CWU charter on their website , you could easily think you were reading a RM policy statement. Certainly they are sophisiticated and business orientated, which they have to be, but I'm not convinced that they balance that with the interests of the front-line workers (just as I'm not convinced that the giant unions are in touch with their members at all anymore - they have become super-sized organisations in themselves...).
I read lots here about anti-globalisation - the CWU are certainly globalisers from reading their charter. I read lots about supporting an 'unnoficial' walkout' but being afraid to go against the CWU and alienate any support you may have and even fears that the CWU is finished if you don't get what you have asked for. You also seem to have a lot of support among the workers for your cause.

If you really feel that this is make or break, do or die time, why not form a seperate union? There are sure enough of you to do so.
The Americans have several unions -

* American Postal Workers Union
* National Association of Letter Carriers
* National Postal Mail Handlers Union
* National Rural Letter Carriers Association
* National Association of Postmasters
* National Association of Postal Supervisors
* National League of Postmasters


You appear to be suffering from the same malaise that I am - a monopoly!
So if you really all feel that strongly, why not start a parallel union and get some leaders that are not as remote as the ones you have (and not riding the same gravy train as your employer), so you can know exactly what is being said, when, by whom and you can make sure your message gets across?

Personally I would like all unions to go back to grass roots...lots of small affilated local branches...the current ones are just too gargantuan to be of any real use anymore IMHO, even if people believe that the more of you there are, the more powferul you are. It's only true if your leaders are prepared to back you up whatever you vote to do, but this lot act like mini-governments in themselves. They are supposed to be representing you...

Just a thought.

<runs for cover>

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Ok..I'm not a postie, I'm just a whinging customer, but reading your threads with interest.

Many of you seem dissatisfied with the way the CWU represent you, and I can see why. And on reading the CWU charter on their website , you could easily think you were reading a RM policy statement. Certainly they are sophisiticated and business orientated, which they have to be, but I'm not convinced that they balance that with the interests of the front-line workers (just as I'm not convinced that the giant unions are in touch with their members at all anymore - they have become super-sized organisations in themselves...).
I read lots here about anti-globalisation - the CWU are certainly globalisers from reading their charter. I read lots about supporting an 'unnoficial' walkout' but being afraid to go against the CWU and alienate any support you may have and even fears that the CWU is finished if you don't get what you have asked for. You also seem to have a lot of support among the workers for your cause.

If you really feel that this is make or break, do or die time, why not form a seperate union? There are sure enough of you to do so.
The Americans have several unions -

* American Postal Workers Union
* National Association of Letter Carriers
* National Postal Mail Handlers Union
* National Rural Letter Carriers Association
* National Association of Postmasters
* National Association of Postal Supervisors
* National League of Postmasters


You appear to be suffering from the same malaise that I am - a monopoly!
So if you really all feel that strongly, why not start a parallel union and get some leaders that are not as remote as the ones you have (and not riding the same gravy train as your employer), so you can know exactly what is being said, when, by whom and you can make sure your message gets across?

Personally I would like all unions to go back to grass roots...lots of small affilated local branches...the current ones are just too gargantuan to be of any real use anymore IMHO, even if people believe that the more of you there are, the more powferul you are. It's only true if your leaders are prepared to back you up whatever you vote to do, but this lot act like mini-governments in themselves. They are supposed to be representing you...

Just a thought.

<runs for cover>

What's it got to do with you? You've got a lot to say for yourself about something which doesn't concern you. The membership will decide what we do, not some s**t stirring outsider like you.