Basically Royal Mail issued a profit warning and a moan about competition... How is the market supposed to react to that?
RM are right to continue to have a go at the Regulator and that is something good about Moya Greene; she had been doing a lot of more that even before privatisation.
But we are now a private industry and open to competition and as long as we are so much more expensive and have a huge encompassing network, OFCOM is going to be on the side of the cheaper competition and help them get deeper into the market.
Its not like we do not understand that issue but as posties there is very little we can do about that. Tokenistic gestures such as DTN and delivering newspapers might sound good and give a can-do impression but it will not stop the decline of RM in the long run.
The best thing is to enjoy our T&C protections for as long as it last (4 years or less?) and our attractive wages compared to the competitors.
BTW, the share price is still very healthy considering that Dividends have been declared and there are cracks beginning to appear in RM future earnings and the rise of the competition.
Are the CWU now regretting negotiating a high wage and longer protections for us? The decline and ultimate job losses is unstoppable and it is not something we can really worry about - the managers just need to manage better, achieve good efficiency levels in many different ways not just picking on some delivery units.
The CWU also have to encourage more efficiency especially from the Regions and offices that are still working far below a good level (BSI or whatever) and the Revision should also be completed in those offices that are refusing to co-operate.
ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (Updated 2021)... HERE
ANNOUNCEMENT : PLEASE BE AWARE WE ARE NOT ON FACEBOOK AT ALL!
Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Delivery
-
chrisj
- Posts: 1883
- Joined: 21 Dec 2010, 16:24
- Gender: Male
-
Danelectro
- Posts: 1058
- Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
How is she doing a good job? the regulator says there isn't a problem so they aint gonna intervene-nothing will change so she has achieved nothing.fact!chrisj wrote: RM are right to continue to have a go at the Regulator and that is something good about Moya Greene; she had been doing a lot of more that even before privatisation.
.
I find it hard to believe that billions of pounds in shares were sold and Moya Greene hasn't had meetings with the government regarding the likely consequences of Direct Delivery.Royal Mail is still a political football and the regulator can be scrapped or appointed by government. Meanwhile the cat is out of the bag with TNT and they also have a good record of taking governments to court over competition issues.So it doesn't seem likely that the end game includes putting a cap on TNTs Direct Delivery activities,who remember have a seat at all talks with the regulator.
How it all ends up is really on hold until after the next general election when whoever forms the government will decide which direction the regulator needs to be pushed in.So I remain to be convinced that the continued calls by Royal Mail for a review by the regulator is gonna happen any time soon and its getting to the point where its feels like a stick to make more savings in the short term.Also even if a review was granted you can bet the conclusions and solutions they arrive at will not be in our best interests.
-
charlie1
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 15 Aug 2007, 15:28
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
Delivery to neighbour should be for customers who want to opt in. Royal Mail could supply the stickers similar to the opt out ones they already dish out, however these would have the provision to write on the preferred neighbours house number etc. Any P379 complaints in the future, provide these to the customers, easy. Every postman delivering, (not just the regular) would know which neighbours to try automatically, no blind knocking.
Some customers on my walk, I know I can leave stuff with neighbours either side, some only one side and others do not want it left under any circumstance either side. Alternatively some of my customers actually prefer to pick their stuff up from the callers office. In fact Royal Mail are probably missing a trick over their competitors, who often have their collection points in remote far flung places.
If we are going to do this, then for once lets try and be professional about it. CWU and Royal Mail need to start listening to the foot soldiers on the ground. Most of us wouldn't object to doing this, just get it implemented in a proper and coherent way. Not all customers will appreciate this random knocking on doors.
The fact my office is now so overrun with parcels, is because we are starting delivering later and later in the day. The majority of parcels do not leave my office now until around 9am at the earliest. Pre revision we were out delivering from 7am with very little coming back. Also our DOM has now decided to start reprimanding us for any mistake however small. This results in nothing being left in the back garden shed etc, for the customers who have verbally requested it. Result posties do the job as by the book, but we have less happy customers and even more returns.
I accept some offices have lost work to TNT or have seen a major drop in Amazon work. However those that have not, will be wondering just how much longer they will be out each day on overtime or how much they will be cutting off. This will not make us more efficient in the eyes of the regulator. It will cost Royal Mail more to deliver the same amount of mail, plus plenty of customers are going to be seeing their mail arriving even later than at present.
The good reputation of Royal Mail comes from the thousands of posties on the ground, backed up many in mail centres, distribution etc. This is what gets the job done, not a bod in a suit with a computer programme who has never done a delivery in their life. Also not a CWU rep that has not been on a delivery since these new revisions kicked in. The reps in my office are happy to listen and talk, however do a delivery, not a chance! Their are too many people running the show now, who are way out of touch!
Some customers on my walk, I know I can leave stuff with neighbours either side, some only one side and others do not want it left under any circumstance either side. Alternatively some of my customers actually prefer to pick their stuff up from the callers office. In fact Royal Mail are probably missing a trick over their competitors, who often have their collection points in remote far flung places.
If we are going to do this, then for once lets try and be professional about it. CWU and Royal Mail need to start listening to the foot soldiers on the ground. Most of us wouldn't object to doing this, just get it implemented in a proper and coherent way. Not all customers will appreciate this random knocking on doors.
The fact my office is now so overrun with parcels, is because we are starting delivering later and later in the day. The majority of parcels do not leave my office now until around 9am at the earliest. Pre revision we were out delivering from 7am with very little coming back. Also our DOM has now decided to start reprimanding us for any mistake however small. This results in nothing being left in the back garden shed etc, for the customers who have verbally requested it. Result posties do the job as by the book, but we have less happy customers and even more returns.
I accept some offices have lost work to TNT or have seen a major drop in Amazon work. However those that have not, will be wondering just how much longer they will be out each day on overtime or how much they will be cutting off. This will not make us more efficient in the eyes of the regulator. It will cost Royal Mail more to deliver the same amount of mail, plus plenty of customers are going to be seeing their mail arriving even later than at present.
The good reputation of Royal Mail comes from the thousands of posties on the ground, backed up many in mail centres, distribution etc. This is what gets the job done, not a bod in a suit with a computer programme who has never done a delivery in their life. Also not a CWU rep that has not been on a delivery since these new revisions kicked in. The reps in my office are happy to listen and talk, however do a delivery, not a chance! Their are too many people running the show now, who are way out of touch!
-
dvbuk55
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 16650
- Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
charlie1 wrote: Their are too many people running the show now, who are way out of touch!
Well not according them, they see the big picture, they want you to become involved (but not really of course they are far too entrenched to be removed), everything they agree to us in your best interests the fact that they aren't involved in the effects of the change are neither here nor there and should you dare to be critical ........................-
chrisj
- Posts: 1883
- Joined: 21 Dec 2010, 16:24
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
We are more or less on the same track. I said it was something good about her not that she was doing a fantastic job: I think she made more attempts at persuading the Regulators publicly than what I remember of her predecessor; and that was even before privatisation.How is she doing a good job? the regulator says there isn't a problem so they aint gonna intervene-nothing will change so she has achieved nothing.fact!
Moaning about a possible drop in Profit in 2017/2018 is neither here or there but I also agreed that the Regulator are unlikely going to change anything in favour of RM... And why would they do so, when we have just used our monopoly of the a nationwide network to pocket a large amount of money from the Sun.
TNT will not stop growing and they have lots of backers including our friends from the Sun (Newscorp) and a lot of Tory politicians and Hedge funds. I bet they are buying up RM shares to eventually get on the Board...
Amazon also will not stop try to blackmail us - use RM when they cannot find cheap alternative or coverage, mona about efficiency and price and many other things... Amazon has a track record of eventually taking over from a partner or supplier - they will even do so even if they are not making profits initially: they love to capture market shares in whatever they have interest in.
I foresee a merger of or conglomerate from Amazon and TNT and other players to take on RM in about 3 years or so... We are doomed! (lol)
-
billysboots1
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 04 Jun 2014, 21:33
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
you will be doomed i have already planned my escape 
-
POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 32730
- Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
Well i'm confused,it is compulsory then...
We’ve agreed with the CWU that Delivery to Neighbour needs to be attempted, every time a customer is not in
https://www.myroyalmail.com/news/2014/0 ... -neighbour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
To ensure we improve our first-time delivery rates, we’ve agreed a national guideline with the CWU that Delivery to Neighbour is now a Royal Mail standard.
We know our customers like and want this service. Ninety-four per cent of customers like Delivery to Neighbour. It helps to reduce complaints and keep customers happy.
However, only a third of consumers have had their post left with a neighbour since we began our scheme in October 2012.
CWU agreement
The union understands the importance of Delivery to Neighbour. It drives brand loyalty.
In line with this, where no opt out exists and it's safe and secure to do so, Delivery to Neighbour needs to be attempted every time your customer is not in to take delivery of their parcel.*
Check the neighbour to the left, the neighbour to the right and the property straight ahead.
Bob Gibson, CWU assistant secretary says: ‘We fully support Delivery to Neighbour becoming a Royal Mail standard on the basis of it being safe for our members and secure in terms of mail integrity. It is a necessary response to increased competition.’
Delivery to Neighbour is now a Royal Mail standard. It must be attempted every time a customer is not in.*
We’ve agreed with the CWU that Delivery to Neighbour needs to be attempted, every time a customer is not in
https://www.myroyalmail.com/news/2014/0 ... -neighbour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
To ensure we improve our first-time delivery rates, we’ve agreed a national guideline with the CWU that Delivery to Neighbour is now a Royal Mail standard.
We know our customers like and want this service. Ninety-four per cent of customers like Delivery to Neighbour. It helps to reduce complaints and keep customers happy.
However, only a third of consumers have had their post left with a neighbour since we began our scheme in October 2012.
CWU agreement
The union understands the importance of Delivery to Neighbour. It drives brand loyalty.
In line with this, where no opt out exists and it's safe and secure to do so, Delivery to Neighbour needs to be attempted every time your customer is not in to take delivery of their parcel.*
Check the neighbour to the left, the neighbour to the right and the property straight ahead.
Bob Gibson, CWU assistant secretary says: ‘We fully support Delivery to Neighbour becoming a Royal Mail standard on the basis of it being safe for our members and secure in terms of mail integrity. It is a necessary response to increased competition.’
Delivery to Neighbour is now a Royal Mail standard. It must be attempted every time a customer is not in.*
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
-
POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 32730
- Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
https://www.myroyalmail.com/news/2014/0 ... every-time" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
First-time delivery is crucial to the success of our business. It is incredibly important for our customers, our business and our people. That’s why we’re launching our new campaign to help you deliver first time, every time.
Our customers
Customers are more likely to stay with us if we deliver their mail first time. And, we are more likely to gain new ones by improving our first-time delivery rates.
P739 Something For You cards are still our biggest area of complaints. First-time delivery is key to reducing those complaints.
Our business
First-time delivery drives brand loyalty.
We believe the best first-time delivery rate in the market – including delivering to a neighbour – is 99%. We’re some way below this.
We must improve to stay number one.
Our people
First-time delivery makes it easier for you and your colleagues as parcels are not returned to the office.
It will reduce queues at enquiry offices and relieves pressure on your office at peak times.
Fewer redelivery requests leads to fewer redelivery complaints.
First-time delivery is crucial to the success of our business. It is incredibly important for our customers, our business and our people. That’s why we’re launching our new campaign to help you deliver first time, every time.
Our customers
Customers are more likely to stay with us if we deliver their mail first time. And, we are more likely to gain new ones by improving our first-time delivery rates.
P739 Something For You cards are still our biggest area of complaints. First-time delivery is key to reducing those complaints.
Our business
First-time delivery drives brand loyalty.
We believe the best first-time delivery rate in the market – including delivering to a neighbour – is 99%. We’re some way below this.
We must improve to stay number one.
Our people
First-time delivery makes it easier for you and your colleagues as parcels are not returned to the office.
It will reduce queues at enquiry offices and relieves pressure on your office at peak times.
Fewer redelivery requests leads to fewer redelivery complaints.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
-
dvbuk55
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 16650
- Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
"We believe the best first-time delivery rate in the market – including delivering to a neighbour – is 99%"
I believe I'll be smooching a raving topless beauty sooner or later...................I won't be of course but believing is definitely not seeing
Odd that the union have made no provision for further revisions on the strength of the undoubted extra time it will take to be swanning up and down the road trying to get rid of a packet or parcel - they truly are in RMs pocket.
Why not have early and late packet runs to alleviate walkers earlier calls people are in and later calls people are in.
I believe I'll be smooching a raving topless beauty sooner or later...................I won't be of course but believing is definitely not seeing
Odd that the union have made no provision for further revisions on the strength of the undoubted extra time it will take to be swanning up and down the road trying to get rid of a packet or parcel - they truly are in RMs pocket.
Why not have early and late packet runs to alleviate walkers earlier calls people are in and later calls people are in.
-
fishtank
- Posts: 19732
- Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
Whether you think DTN is a good thing or a bad thing is irrelevant, If you don't resource it no-one will do it. The flyers certainly won't if it's going to cost them time and those who already work their hours don't have the time to do it obviously. With no staff buy-in it will simply create more confrontation, more bullying and more unpaid overtime.
It's an own goal by the business and what the union was thinking is anyone's guess. Poorly handled by both sides and another reason for membership disengagement and ultimately fewer members.
Is someone at HQ trying to bring the union down?
It's an own goal by the business and what the union was thinking is anyone's guess. Poorly handled by both sides and another reason for membership disengagement and ultimately fewer members.
Is someone at HQ trying to bring the union down?
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
-
halfull
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 858
- Joined: 22 Jan 2011, 13:37
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
so no comment at all about the extra time it will take to possibly knock 3 doors & still have to fill a p739 out?????????????
Im completely baffled by this stance from the cwu! They must make it clear how this will all work in the real world!
Im completely baffled by this stance from the cwu! They must make it clear how this will all work in the real world!
-
steve1873
- Posts: 792
- Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 13:55
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
Must be attempted...
There are days I take back 20-30 items. Assuming delivery to a neighbour only adds 1 minute per item (in reality is probably 2-3 mins) then that is an additional 40-60 minutes on delivery. Delivery that is already stretched to bursting point regarding finishing on my time. So what does Bob Gibson suggest, because I guarantee my duty is not going to be adjusted to take this in to consideration!
There are days I take back 20-30 items. Assuming delivery to a neighbour only adds 1 minute per item (in reality is probably 2-3 mins) then that is an additional 40-60 minutes on delivery. Delivery that is already stretched to bursting point regarding finishing on my time. So what does Bob Gibson suggest, because I guarantee my duty is not going to be adjusted to take this in to consideration!
-
Sidley
- Posts: 653
- Joined: 16 Jun 2012, 22:01
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
" Any extended delivery as a consequence of providing this service will be dealt with using normal local procedures"
So Fat Bobs suggestion is to leave you to the tender mercies of whatever bullshit fairytale local agreement the Dom wet dreamt up.
Or am I being WAY too cynical?
So Fat Bobs suggestion is to leave you to the tender mercies of whatever bullshit fairytale local agreement the Dom wet dreamt up.
Or am I being WAY too cynical?
-
BernardBresslaw
- Posts: 381
- Joined: 24 Nov 2011, 15:52
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
We've already had a union man tell us in this thread that attempting delivery to a neighbour takes no additional time which should tell you everything about their stance on the matter. Quite pathetic. Insulting to our intelligence actually.
-
chrisj
- Posts: 1883
- Joined: 21 Dec 2010, 16:24
- Gender: Male
Re: Revised Agreement -Deliver to Neighbour/First Time Deliv
I see they are using the P739 complaint angle again! How can using a P739 appropriately be classed a complaint?
It is baffling that they just say things that they know nothing about or they just so intent on insulting our intelligence.
The P739 complaint is generally from posties rushing and not giving customer enough time to answer the door or a few bad eggs not taking the parcels in the first place.
A rusher will still have the same problem of going to a neighbour to deliver. In fact, the patience level of knocking on a door on spec is far less than the original addressee. The last thing a postie wants is to knock on a neighbour - wait ages - move to the next one and wait ages - and then back to the original to deliver a P739 card to advice customer that parcel is at a neighbour or taken back to the office.
And this will add no extra time or the extra time has to be negotiated with a manager who is likely going to be sceptical or uncooperative
What if a customer still complains that I was at home yet my parcel was deliver to a neighbour? Will that still be a valid complaint? P739 complaint can also be the fault of the customer and sometimes it is not even about parcels delivered by Royal Mail...
Of course it adds no extra time at all because we all finish early do not have much to do...
It is baffling that they just say things that they know nothing about or they just so intent on insulting our intelligence.
The P739 complaint is generally from posties rushing and not giving customer enough time to answer the door or a few bad eggs not taking the parcels in the first place.
A rusher will still have the same problem of going to a neighbour to deliver. In fact, the patience level of knocking on a door on spec is far less than the original addressee. The last thing a postie wants is to knock on a neighbour - wait ages - move to the next one and wait ages - and then back to the original to deliver a P739 card to advice customer that parcel is at a neighbour or taken back to the office.
And this will add no extra time or the extra time has to be negotiated with a manager who is likely going to be sceptical or uncooperative
What if a customer still complains that I was at home yet my parcel was deliver to a neighbour? Will that still be a valid complaint? P739 complaint can also be the fault of the customer and sometimes it is not even about parcels delivered by Royal Mail...
Of course it adds no extra time at all because we all finish early do not have much to do...