dingo wrote:You would be right if they were coming into the market on the same terms as Royal Mail but they are not. TNT have 24% of the DSA market and unless they go into partnership with say Uk mails will not grow anything more.
They have a clear strategy and in the 3 cities they are operating in currently have taken over 10% of the whole of UKs delivered Mail total in less than 2 years.
They only have to deliver to these addresses 3 days per week and can decide what they put into the Royal Mail system and what they deliver themselves.
They pay just £7:10 pence per hour less then the living wage and employ people on zero hour contract and unless your a driver you don't are part time.
Their strategy is to go to only 8% of the UK but within that 8% they will be able to deliver to 42% of the whole UK addrsses. They do not have the added costs of delivering to the 29 million UK addresses where there is no margin for them , they simply can use Royal Mail for this.
Now I am not trying to scare anyone as those of us who experience it are concerned enough , how much more than 10% loss of work will it take until either Off comm wake up to the threat or that the USO cannot survive and whilst the cities will get two deliveries per day 1 from Royal Mail and 1 from TNT the rurals and towns end up getting a service twice or three times per week ?
What I'm saying is once TNT have fully rolled out their delivery network across the UK, they will then be exposed to declining letter volumes and wont be able to seek growth in expanding letter volumes because their on their way down. The fact that they have lower wage and other associated costs than Royal mail is irrelevant as they also have far less revenue than Royal Mail. What my point was once TNT have reached their target of 42% where do they go to get further increases in revenue from, as their letters revenue will be in decline just like Royal mail. And with their cut to the bone service the decline will directly hit their profit margin. As you cant really make any savings.
I also believe Ofcom need to step in now before the only way to save the USO is to accept a drop in services.
Chitchat wrote:What I don't understand is why would a business in todays world set up a letters delivery service? With letters in long term decline it seems madness to invest money into a shrinking business model. Cause once TNT have fully expanding into all the areas they want to deliver to theres only one direction there business can go, and thats down. Having to do what RM do and manage the declining letters and the rising costs associated with physical delivery. Surely it would have been better to invest in parcels, you only have to look at Royal mails shift into Different delivery methods to adapt to the shift from letters to parcels.
social stamped mail is down , business mail in cities is up
tnt are not interested in social stamped mail that has to be delivered to remote addresses
dingo wrote:You would be right if they were coming into the market on the same terms as Royal Mail but they are not. TNT have 24% of the DSA market and unless they go into partnership with say Uk mails will not grow anything more.
They have a clear strategy and in the 3 cities they are operating in currently have taken over 10% of the whole of UKs delivered Mail total in less than 2 years.
They only have to deliver to these addresses 3 days per week and can decide what they put into the Royal Mail system and what they deliver themselves.
They pay just £7:10 pence per hour less then the living wage and employ people on zero hour contract and unless your a driver you don't are part time.
Their strategy is to go to only 8% of the UK but within that 8% they will be able to deliver to 42% of the whole UK addrsses. They do not have the added costs of delivering to the 29 million UK addresses where there is no margin for them , they simply can use Royal Mail for this.
Now I am not trying to scare anyone as those of us who experience it are concerned enough , how much more than 10% loss of work will it take until either Off comm wake up to the threat or that the USO cannot survive and whilst the cities will get two deliveries per day 1 from Royal Mail and 1 from TNT the rurals and towns end up getting a service twice or three times per week ?
What I'm saying is once TNT have fully rolled out their delivery network across the UK, they will then be exposed to declining letter volumes and wont be able to seek growth in expanding letter volumes because their on their way down. The fact that they have lower wage and other associated costs than Royal mail is irrelevant as they also have far less revenue than Royal Mail. What my point was once TNT have reached their target of 42% where do they go to get further increases in revenue from, as their letters revenue will be in decline just like Royal mail. And with their cut to the bone service the decline will directly hit their profit margin. As you cant really make any savings.
I also believe Ofcom need to step in now before the only way to save the USO is to accept a drop in services.
Ofcom won't step in while we're on £3 an hour more than TNT workers.
TNT pay just £7:10 pence per hour and employ people on zero hour contracts, but if people will accept just £7:10 pence per hour and zero hour contracts can you blame them ?
Off Comms primary role is to protect the USO. Post Comm did not take any action on DSA until it was too late and now competitors like TNT and UK mails have 50% of this market which 10 years ago Royal Mail had the full 100% and all the revenue.
Now with end to end the tipping point on the USO is a lot less then 50%. Currently TNT have managed to get 10% of the total delivered traffic across the UK by being in operation in Manchester , Liverpool and in 6 of the 9 London postcodes. Now that is worrying.
Now I am not sure you get TNTs strategy Chitchat , the DSA market is very profitable and TNT has 24% of this market. This actually means that they now decide where they think it is profitable for them to deliver the DSA themselves and where it is not they use Royal Mail. It really is a no brainer. Now if they do a partnership with UK mails they would take even more mail from Royal Mails final mile delivery but in the big cities leaving Royal Mail the most costly operation of delivering to towns and more remote areas.
Remember they deliver big companies mail which is profitable and is in less of a decline than say snail mail. However Royal Mail"s share of this mail is reducing from both the outward mail centre and now from delivery offices who have TNT on the streets.
dingo wrote:Off Comms primary role is to protect the USO. Post Comm did not take any action on DSA until it was too late and now competitors like TNT and UK mails have 50% of this market which 10 years ago Royal Mail had the full 100% and all the revenue.
Now with end to end the tipping point on the USO is a lot less then 50%. Currently TNT have managed to get 10% of the total delivered traffic across the UK by being in operation in Manchester , Liverpool and in 6 of the 9 London postcodes. Now that is worrying.
Now I am not sure you get TNTs strategy Chitchat , the DSA market is very profitable and TNT has 24% of this market. This actually means that they now decide where they think it is profitable for them to deliver the DSA themselves and where it is not they use Royal Mail. It really is a no brainer. Now if they do a partnership with UK mails they would take even more mail from Royal Mails final mile delivery but in the big cities leaving Royal Mail the most costly operation of delivering to towns and more remote areas.
Remember they deliver big companies mail which is profitable and is in less of a decline than say snail mail. However Royal Mail"s share of this mail is reducing from both the outward mail centre and now from delivery offices who have TNT on the streets.
dsa has surely been going for longer than 10 years now
dingo wrote:Off Comms primary role is to protect the USO. Post Comm did not take any action on DSA until it was too late and now competitors like TNT and UK mails have 50% of this market which 10 years ago Royal Mail had the full 100% and all the revenue.
Now with end to end the tipping point on the USO is a lot less then 50%. Currently TNT have managed to get 10% of the total delivered traffic across the UK by being in operation in Manchester , Liverpool and in 6 of the 9 London postcodes. Now that is worrying.
Now I am not sure you get TNTs strategy Chitchat , the DSA market is very profitable and TNT has 24% of this market. This actually means that they now decide where they think it is profitable for them to deliver the DSA themselves and where it is not they use Royal Mail. It really is a no brainer. Now if they do a partnership with UK mails they would take even more mail from Royal Mails final mile delivery but in the big cities leaving Royal Mail the most costly operation of delivering to towns and more remote areas.
Remember they deliver big companies mail which is profitable and is in less of a decline than say snail mail. However Royal Mail"s share of this mail is reducing from both the outward mail centre and now from delivery offices who have TNT on the streets.
So are you telling me that Business mail isn't in decline then? I have seen big companies trying to push their customers online for years now. What I'm saying is why invest in an industry thats in decline, its not like parcels that are increasing massively year on year. With the stamped mail that has always been a loss maker for Royal mail. Im sure Royal mail would love to get rid of all the post boxes and stamps and deal wholly with business mail.
dingo wrote:You would be right if they were coming into the market on the same terms as Royal Mail but they are not. TNT have 24% of the DSA market and unless they go into partnership with say Uk mails will not grow anything more.
They have a clear strategy and in the 3 cities they are operating in currently have taken over 10% of the whole of UKs delivered Mail total in less than 2 years.
They only have to deliver to these addresses 3 days per week and can decide what they put into the Royal Mail system and what they deliver themselves.
They pay just £7:10 pence per hour less then the living wage and employ people on zero hour contract and unless your a driver you don't are part time.
Their strategy is to go to only 8% of the UK but within that 8% they will be able to deliver to 42% of the whole UK addrsses. They do not have the added costs of delivering to the 29 million UK addresses where there is no margin for them , they simply can use Royal Mail for this.
Now I am not trying to scare anyone as those of us who experience it are concerned enough , how much more than 10% loss of work will it take until either Off comm wake up to the threat or that the USO cannot survive and whilst the cities will get two deliveries per day 1 from Royal Mail and 1 from TNT the rurals and towns end up getting a service twice or three times per week ?
Hi I work for TNT as a postie. Just to say that they pay us £6.50 per hour.
I am also a Royal Mail customer!
dingo wrote:You would be right if they were coming into the market on the same terms as Royal Mail but they are not. TNT have 24% of the DSA market and unless they go into partnership with say Uk mails will not grow anything more.
They have a clear strategy and in the 3 cities they are operating in currently have taken over 10% of the whole of UKs delivered Mail total in less than 2 years.
They only have to deliver to these addresses 3 days per week and can decide what they put into the Royal Mail system and what they deliver themselves.
They pay just £7:10 pence per hour less then the living wage and employ people on zero hour contract and unless your a driver you don't are part time.
Their strategy is to go to only 8% of the UK but within that 8% they will be able to deliver to 42% of the whole UK addrsses. They do not have the added costs of delivering to the 29 million UK addresses where there is no margin for them , they simply can use Royal Mail for this.
Now I am not trying to scare anyone as those of us who experience it are concerned enough , how much more than 10% loss of work will it take until either Off comm wake up to the threat or that the USO cannot survive and whilst the cities will get two deliveries per day 1 from Royal Mail and 1 from TNT the rurals and towns end up getting a service twice or three times per week ?
TNT in our part of Manchester now deliver standard letters, catalogues, plastic wraps, large flats and letter box sized jiffys and packets such as contact lens's and discs. They have to have on walk refills because they cannot carry everything out with them and we have seen their delivery staff on the same walk on consecutive days as well as every other day. - They are busy enough to worry us and in many areas their staff turnover is settling down and many of them (thankfully including the one who delivers my mail) have been with them since they started in November and know their customers already. The CWU exists to support anyone who is a member so don't expect preferential treatment if TNT staff join up, only perhaps a meeting of terms and conditions which will by the laws of compromise mean a drop in RM staff standards of employment.
Ignoring the threat to jobs is no longer an option - realising that you have to work hard to compete definitely is.
diddlydee wrote:
Hi I work for TNT as a postie. Just to say that they pay us £6.50 per hour.
I am also a Royal Mail customer!
Hi there. Do you mind if I ask if that's a starting pay rate which increases the longer you work there? That's the way it is at RM, for us it works out at £1/hr increase after the first 12 months. Also do you have fixed hours per week to work or is it one of those 'zero hour' contracts we hear about so much? It's pretty scary for us that there's such a pay difference for what are largely very similar jobs.
Welcome to the site, by the way, always interesting to hear first-hand what things are like for you there.
I work for TNT as a postie. Just to say that they pay us £6.50 per hour.