Why the question of time taken to complete O/T??

[dvbuk55]

I will rather people start working all the hours to start with; perhaps then the managers will not even have to pay OT because they can send people back out again...

If someone can complete a delivery and then finish early they should be sent out to complete the hours they are paid for - that is exactly what happens in our office.

Thats nice, not only are we getting grief off the doms but supposed work mates are at it too. Pleased I work in the sticks were I not only finish early but start later..bliss

Enjoy it while it lasts

[datasaint]

Do managers get paid for any walking they do?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Do managers get paid for any walking they do?

Substantive - No I believe they are on salaries.

Acting - yes if its outside their normal contract hours.

[Lincox]

I think where DVBUK is coming from is that in no agreement between Royal Mail and CWU is there an option to receive more hours than actually worked. I am not saying that there is not a local agreement, but I doubt for one minute that this will have been put in writing. I would doubt that any Manager has a mandate to sanction this and further Royal Mail would most definitely take action against both the sanctioner and the receiver should it come to the attention of those in high places.

[dvbuk55]

I think where DVBUK is coming from is that in no agreement between Royal Mail and CWU is there an option to receive more hours than actually worked. I am not saying that there is not a local agreement, but I doubt for one minute that this will have been put in writing. I would doubt that any Manager has a mandate to sanction this and further Royal Mail would most definitely take action against both the sanctioner and the receiver should it come to the attention of those in high places.

Bob on Lincox, the problem is those who fiddle the system obviously want it to continue, look at the MPs fiddling like crazy and then trying to justify it.

[datasaint]

I don't see how it's enforceable to make people work their exact hours. If anything it'll only encourage people to drag their feet. You'll get a situation whereby manager has a load of work available but people will only do a bit and drag it out. Whereas you give the same rate of pay for a fixed bit of work incentive is there to get it done and go home.

[chrisj]

As someone who used to do quite a lot of OT to make up my wages, I can honestly tell you that I rarely ever do easier rounds as I am relatively junior and a reserve... The real incentive to going that extra mile (pun intended) when absolutely tired and with aching joints is the little bit enhanced OT payment that I get.

Nowadays, I just work my days off if they ask me or not...

The people that took out today's OT were all 27 hours posties who had been in the office about 1 year or just more. That goes to show that even with the better (unofficial) delivery* OT rate, it is still very hard to get volunteers.

Lastly, I will rather have an agreed rate - say, 3 hours for 1/2 a round or 2.5 hours on a Tuesday than what we sort of have these days; our managers tend to pay people based on cronyism, seniority and/or desperation or bargaining power They can end up paying a junior staff far less for doing the same OT than others - that is wrong, IMO.

Fiddling is a bit OTT to describe what is going on... They can employ more staff and pay no sickness benefits or go the route of unreliable temporary staff (hard in delivery to get people on short notice for a hard job) or do it themselves - and they do not like that!

[wannabeek]

I don't see how it's enforceable to make people work their exact hours. If anything it'll only encourage people to drag their feet. You'll get a situation whereby manager has a load of work available but people will only do a bit and drag it out. Whereas you give the same rate of pay for a fixed bit of work incentive is there to get it done and go home.

Maybe our office is just unique then. The thought of 'dragging my feet' around half a duty having just completed another, just to pretend it takes 4 hrs to do is horrible. I'd rather go home at the time I'm supposed to (or in the case of OT like this, up until the time I choose to), at the hour until which I'm paid. I suppose a lot of you here think we're mugs, but it seems reasonable to me.

[Lounge Lizard]

How can your OT be costing too much? It's paid at flat rate until you hit 39 hours!

Exactly. Its just the going rate.

You've both been abusing the system, you've been lucky to get away with it so far. I'd quit while you're ahead if I was you.

You should only get paid for the hours you work. If it takes an hour to do half a walk or whatever, you should get paid an hour at the proper overtime rate (assuming you have exceeded your contracted hours for the day).

I'd happily work all my hours if it meant I was coming in early prepping but its very rare they require me to do this. I am a fast walker and regularly am likened to a wippet! Long legs n all. What takes me an hour could easily take someone else 2. Also, to cut out the need for dragging a trolley around, I loop back to the van on regular occasions, thus speeding the process up. If I were just paid for hours I did, i'd have to start looking for a new job. Theres no way i'm gunna complete the O/T and just sit in the van for an hour or so.

Another problem I come across alot is the amount of time they hand out for O/T. I helped them out yday by delivering 2 loops that couldn't be completed. I just about managed to barter with them and get 1.5 hours for it. I know for a fact that another lad did the same 2 loops last week and got 2 hours for it, only taking him 3 quarters of an hour

The way I see it is, RM wants all its employees to be part time(really is a dead end job now to be honest). The business requirements need to be met and they cant do this when they replace full timers with part timers. So in the end, paying out O/T is the only way they're gunna meet their service level agreements. I'd snap their hands off for a full time job, but only joining RM last year, can't see this ever happeneing. So its viva O/T for me!

"regularly I am likened to a whippet!" What, all rib and dick ?

[dvbuk55]

"regularly I am likened to a whippet!" What, all rib and dick ?

Doesn't he just wish - no, more like wave a rag and off he goes with no thought whatsoever.

[Dalelad]

"regularly I am likened to a whippet!" What, all rib and dick ?

Doesn't he just wish - no, more like wave a rag and off he goes with no thought whatsoever.

Haha. Lifes too short to be pounding the streets. Get job done and get on with living.
I'm surprised theres still a few of you on here thinking its unreasonable to be paid a set rate for O/T. The set amount that was AGREED WITH YOUR MANAGER BEFORE YOU LEFT TO DO THE WORK!!
Heres 2 more reasons why it is reasonable.
1) RM no longer employ full time posties. Haven't for 10 years in my DO. Instead, when full timers retire or take VR, are replaced with part timers. Thus leaving a void. So to fill that void they have to pay out O/T to existing staff. This ISN'T costing RM more when you think about it. Think about all that holiday pay they're saving when the full timers have gone. Its a no brainer. It annoys me that you hear on the news how the economy is starting to flourish again and more people are in work. Yeah, a hell of alot of them people aren't full time because companies don't want to pay out. I think this is going to damage the economy in the long run as people won't be able to get mortgages based on their part time contracts. Anyway, gone off topic theres. Fact is, less holiday pay to pay out, so plenty left over to pay O/T

2) Theres posties in my office that are that slow, their partners get their deliveries done and then get picked up. I've worked with a couple of them. Found myself regularly helping them finish their loops because i've got O/T to do after and i'd be out there all day if I didn't. Now if these guys ever took O/T out, it would probably take them atleast the amount of time agreed. They don't as most of these guys are full timers just a few years off retirement and are just meandering on till they retire. I haven't got anything against them. Hell i'd probably be the same in their position. At the end of the day, no matter how fast or slow we are, we are all being paid to do the same job. So it should be the same amout paid for O/T, irrespective of how long it takes.

[Lounge Lizard]

"regularly I am likened to a whippet!" What, all rib and dick ?

Doesn't he just wish - no, more like wave a rag and off he goes with no thought whatsoever.

Haha. Lifes too short to be pounding the streets. Get job done and get on with living.
I'm surprised theres still a few of you on here thinking its unreasonable to be paid a set rate for O/T. The set amount that was AGREED WITH YOUR MANAGER BEFORE YOU LEFT TO DO THE WORK!!
Heres 2 more reasons why it is reasonable.
1) RM no longer employ full time posties. Haven't for 10 years in my DO. Instead, when full timers retire or take VR, are replaced with part timers. Thus leaving a void. So to fill that void they have to pay out O/T to existing staff. This ISN'T costing RM more when you think about it. Think about all that holiday pay they're saving when the full timers have gone. Its a no brainer. It annoys me that you hear on the news how the economy is starting to flourish again and more people are in work. Yeah, a hell of alot of them people aren't full time because companies don't want to pay out. I think this is going to damage the economy in the long run as people won't be able to get mortgages based on their part time contracts. Anyway, gone off topic theres. Fact is, less holiday pay to pay out, so plenty left over to pay O/T

2) Theres posties in my office that are that slow, their partners get their deliveries done and then get picked up. I've worked with a couple of them. Found myself regularly helping them finish their loops because i've got O/T to do after and i'd be out there all day if I didn't. Now if these guys ever took O/T out, it would probably take them atleast the amount of time agreed. They don't as most of these guys are full timers just a few years off retirement and are just meandering on till they retire. I haven't got anything against them. Hell i'd probably be the same in their position. At the end of the day, no matter how fast or slow we are, we are all being paid to do the same job. So it should be the same amout paid for O/T, irrespective of how long it takes.

If "Life's too short to be pounding the streets" then don't do overtime.
The "set rate for O/T" is agreed nationally between RM and the CWU. That a "set amount that was AGREED WITH YOUR MANAGER BEFORE YOU LEFT TO DO THE WORK" is "providing false information [and] may amount to gross misconduct which could result in disciplinary or criminal proceedings [which] may result in dismissal" is evidently of little concern to you.

[dvbuk55]

If "Life's too short to be pounding the streets" then don't do overtime.
The "set rate for O/T" is agreed nationally between RM and the CWU. That a "set amount that was AGREED WITH YOUR MANAGER BEFORE YOU LEFT TO DO THE WORK" is "providing false information [and] may amount to gross misconduct which could result in disciplinary or criminal proceedings [which] may result in dismissal" is evidently of little concern to you.

Quite correct LL, I'd bet my life that's a verbal agreement - who fills in the overtime sheet and accepts the pay - the manager at the end of the day authorises what YOU claim and that will be HIS story when the brown stuff hits the fan.

[CharlesSpooner]

Many moons ago we used to have a set amount of paid hours for doing a walk or half a walk on OT regardless of how long it took.
Then it was cut.
Then it was you only book what it takes you.

I stopped doing it and just rely on extending on my own delivery if I need the dosh - cutting off if I don't.