Why the question of time taken to complete O/T??

[dblad]

You've both been abusing the system, you've been lucky to get away with it so far. I'd quit while you're ahead if I was you.

You should only get paid for the hours you work. If it takes an hour to do half a walk or whatever, you should get paid an hour at the proper overtime rate (assuming you have exceeded your contracted hours for the day).

I remember not too long ago we were all getting ripped off by this delightful company, I did 15 hours o/t one week and only got paid four, only got it back by claiming later for o/t I didn't do...and this was happening all over the country, so if they ask him to work more o/t on the same day and he can get more, good luck to him.

[wannabeek]

Sorry mate, but this is the way of the future. Already been happening for at our DO since before I started. I'm one of the regular 'clearer-uppers', but only book the time it takes. Never occurred to me that I should do any different at the start, seeing as I've had decades of employment in other jobs before RM. This is just normal working practise in other companies.

Normal practise in other companies would be to reward you with an increased rate of pay for doing OT. I think they way it works now where RM pay a fixed amount for OT works and the postie can do it at whatever speed they want.

On a side-note, I think any OT hounds are the least likely to get bumped up to FT hours because the managers know if that happened they'd be less inclined to do more hours.

I guess maybe I've just had particularly stingy jobs before RM then. Only Sunday or night shifts was ever paid at a higher rate, normal hours overtime has always been normal rate in my experience. This is retail, factory, cleaning, farm labouring, office work, all sorts really.

I suppose you'd call me an OT hound, but it's pretty easy money in my opinion, compared to practically every other job I've had. I've been bumped up to full time hours too but it makes not much difference to me TBH, used to average 50hrs/week when part time and still do now.

Another point is, there's no rushing about like a loon to get it done early. I'm paid by the minute so I do the job properly (without taking the mick, obviously). No incentive for me to race around cutting corners, seems sensible to me.

[chrisj]

Just like to add that coming in early to do 1 hour OT is not exactly as hard as doing a straight 1 hour delivery.

Moreover, 1 hour on IPS or Parcels is likely going to be about 35 minutes or less because it depends on the amount of work that is available and how many people are doing it. Secondly, one can take as much breaks and take the mick by not working hard or like some I know spend some of the time throwing off their own work...

1 hour delivery of mail will usually involve more than 1 hour work: so people saying that one should be paid for how long it takes has to put other aspects of delivery into consideration; coming back to office, bagging up, travel time, extra break, coming back to the office and admin, and others like obtaining a van and others factors that could be beyond a postie control on delivery.

And like most people said, anyone going out to deliver extra should be paid some sort of premium for the harder graft; even if that is not official. Managers can always do it if they are not ready to pay.

[coxie]

Just like to add that coming in early to do 1 hour OT is not exactly as hard as doing a straight 1 hour delivery.

Moreover, 1 hour on IPS or Parcels is likely going to be about 35 minutes or less because it depends on the amount of work that is available and how many people are doing it. Secondly, one can take as much breaks and take the mick by not working hard or like some I know spend some of the time throwing off their own work...

1 hour delivery of mail will usually involve more than 1 hour work: so people saying that one should be paid for how long it takes has to put other aspects of delivery into consideration; coming back to office, bagging up, travel time, extra break, coming back to the office and admin, and others like obtaining a van and others factors that could be beyond a postie control on delivery.

And like most people said, anyone going out to deliver extra should be paid some sort of premium for the harder graft; even if that is not official. Managers can always do it if they are not ready to pay.

Spot on.

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys

[Lincox]

Not for one minute do I blame a postie for negotiating a better rate. My argument is with Royal Mail not conduct coding the managers for what I can only imagine is a breach of their duty and code of practice, and their contract.

[iHateD2Ds]

By claiming more overtime than you have actually done is fraudulent and gives management ammunition to give you the sack. Now that a manager has questioned your overtime I think you are treading on a fine line and I would quit claiming more than worked. The PDAs track every location and time when used, BIG brother is watching us my friend.

[Dalelad]

I've opened a right can of worms with this topic. It is a major issue though, considering the road RM are going down with their part time contracts. Reading through all the posts, the majority are in favour of being paid a set rate for O/T, irrespective of how long it takes. The managers will argue against as it affects their bonuses when budgets are stretched and posties will argue for as they need the money to make hours up. I'm abit gutted about not getting 4 hours for half a walk like some of you on here though! They upped ours from 2 n half to 3 as an incentive for people to do it. Remember, there is strength in numbers when it comes to this. They tried stopping us from bundling up and taking O/T out before we left in morning. Everyone got together and refused to take it. Needless to say, that idea soon got thrown out the window.

So to conclude. To all you managers out there, stop questioning our work ethic. You need the post delivering, we do it. You agree an amount to be paid BEFORE O/T is carried out, we sign for it, end of.

[dvbuk55]

It's not end of at all. Anyone who reads the forum threads will see that the service element of PDAs is being trialled in 20 offices and we all know that means it will come in to being in all offices. Now when that happens the data collected won't be able to be fiddled like the hours are at the moment and will be viewable by higher echelons and when it's logged off it should tally with the hours claimed - if not someone will have to answer why. A good thing too.

[coxie]

By claiming more overtime than you have actually done is fraudulent and gives management ammunition to give you the sack. Now that a manager has questioned your overtime I think you are treading on a fine line and I would quit claiming more than worked. The PDAs track every location and time when used, BIG brother is watching us my friend.

Nobody just decides to claim more than the time it takes, it is agreed with the manager up front. In my office it's the agreed payment by managers and union if other offices are to weak to fight for a good deal and willing to do overtime on the cheap then that's their hard luck but I wouldn't knock others who have managed to get a better deal. If a fellow postie asked someone to cover his whole duty and it only took 3 hours do you think he'd find anyone to do it for £25? I doubt it, same rules apply here and management are always welcome to do it theirselves if they don't want to pay.

[coxie]

It's not end of at all. Anyone who reads the forum threads will see that the service element of PDAs is being trialled in 20 offices and we all know that means it will come in to being in all offices. Now when that happens the data collected won't be able to be fiddled like the hours are at the moment and will be viewable by higher echelons and when it's logged off it should tally with the hours claimed - if not someone will have to answer why. A good thing too.

It's not being fiddled, it's being agreed with managers before the work is done, nobody is making up their own figures, it's all fully agreed with managers as union how much we get for overtime. Like I said in my offices it's half a days pay for half a walk and why not it's tiring. Managers only want to get it done as cheap as possible so they get a bigger bonus, so when you do overtime on the cheap just think of how much the managers will be pocketing for your hard work.

[dvbuk55]

It's not being fiddled, it's being agreed with managers before the work is done, nobody is making up their own figures, it's all fully agreed with managers as union how much we get for overtime. Like I said in my offices it's half a days pay for half a walk and why not it's tiring. Managers only want to get it done as cheap as possible so they get a bigger bonus, so when you do overtime on the cheap just think of how much the managers will be pocketing for your hard work.

Of course it's being fiddled because there is insufficient work to justify the hours being claimed - each hour worked equals 1 hours pay, no more, no less. The sooner a stop is put to this practice the better.

[chrisj]

I think some are confusing doing extra delivery OT with going/running over with one's main delivery.

To clarify: the PDA will only record the delivery part of the task but there is more to doing a delivery than just walking and putting the letters in the letter boxes.

I have highlighted what is involved. And Coxie has more than highlighted that this is an agreed rate of pay - and that pay includes an element of inconvenience as well as the other associated tasks.

Someone who has been out on a 3.5 or more hours delivery - mainly walking; and then goes out for half a round of about 1.75 or more hours can expect to earn a premium rate. Certainly not the same rate as coming in early to throw off - that is a just an easy ride for most people.

Furthermore, how do managers determine the productivity of the indoor OT elements - they often cannot. So why should the postie out there in the elements be expected to perform at a higher level or even monitored negatively.

Manager was desperate today - as usual they struggle to get people to do delivery OT on a saturday. And this is a glorious sunny FA cup saturday - why should anyone want to do OT not just at the same rate but just for the so-called 'how long the delivery/job takes'?

I told him he will need to pay a 'Saturday' rate (unofficial, I know but, hey ho) to even start to persuade people... He said, he will rather do it himself - we all said, go for it! I came back, and he had found some folks to do the OT - at an enhanced rate - muppet!

[chrisj]

It's not being fiddled, it's being agreed with managers before the work is done, nobody is making up their own figures, it's all fully agreed with managers as union how much we get for overtime. Like I said in my offices it's half a days pay for half a walk and why not it's tiring. Managers only want to get it done as cheap as possible so they get a bigger bonus, so when you do overtime on the cheap just think of how much the managers will be pocketing for your hard work.

Of course it's being fiddled because there is insufficient work to justify the hours being claimed - each hour worked equals 1 hours pay, no more, no less. The sooner a stop is put to this practice the better.

How can they put a stop to it without employing more people and carrying slack. This is a cheaper option as long as it does not happen too often and it is not overly abused: such 45 minutes job for 3 hours - that is a tard greedy; but that is what is agreed. The postie can always drag it out but an agreement is an agreement.

It is called supply and demand and sometimes, the postie can call the shots if the managers are really desperate - why not? TBH, this is the ultimate in incentivising people to want to do OT.

I think some people take a overly negative view because they do not do overtime.

I will rather people start working all the hours to start with; perhaps then the managers will not even have to pay OT because they can send people back out again...

[dvbuk55]

I will rather people start working all the hours to start with; perhaps then the managers will not even have to pay OT because they can send people back out again...

If someone can complete a delivery and then finish early they should be sent out to complete the hours they are paid for - that is exactly what happens in our office.

[dblad]

I will rather people start working all the hours to start with; perhaps then the managers will not even have to pay OT because they can send people back out again...

If someone can complete a delivery and then finish early they should be sent out to complete the hours they are paid for - that is exactly what happens in our office.

Thats nice, not only are we getting grief off the doms but supposed work mates are at it too. Pleased I work in the sticks were I not only finish early but start later..bliss