Unusual Question about Grievance

[UnhappyGremlin]

RM do settle before cases are heard.
They attempt it every time if they think they may be on dodgy ground.

And ET's aren't just there in case of dismissals, you can file ET's for an endless number of complaints.
Including discrimination, which is what this person has suffered.

[Lincox]

And thankfully he has the balls to pursue what he conceives as discrimination, and is not put off by people like hantsman who believes that the likes of Royal Mail are too powerful to be challenged.

[hantsman]

RM do settle before cases are heard.
They attempt it every time if they think they may be on dodgy ground.

And ET's aren't just there in case of dismissals, you can file ET's for an endless number of complaints.
Including discrimination, which is what this person has suffered.

An ET is not for endless complaints, again RM very rarely settle before, if you can point to the case's where they attempt everytime they think they may lose?

[hantsman]

And thankfully he has the balls to pursue what he conceives as discrimination, and is not put off by people like hantsman who believes that the likes of Royal Mail are too powerful to be challenged.

I have never said RM are to powerful, please don't make things up! Let's see what happens but I suspect it won't go further.

[UnhappyGremlin]

RM do settle before cases are heard.
They attempt it every time if they think they may be on dodgy ground.

And ET's aren't just there in case of dismissals, you can file ET's for an endless number of complaints.
Including discrimination, which is what this person has suffered.

An ET is not for endless complaints, again RM very rarely settle before, if you can point to the case's where they attempt everytime they think they may lose?

Do some research.
ET's can be applied for by any employee who has a genuine complaint, such as discrimination (of which there will hundreds of varieties - hence endless). They are not a one trick pony by a long shot.
The reason RM actually rarely settle isn't because they don't try, it's because the complainants tell them to piss off.

Why don't you point to the cases where they don't settle before (and haven't made any attempt to)?

[hantsman]

RM do settle before cases are heard.
They attempt it every time if they think they may be on dodgy ground.

And ET's aren't just there in case of dismissals, you can file ET's for an endless number of complaints.
Including discrimination, which is what this person has suffered.

An ET is not for endless complaints, again RM very rarely settle before, if you can point to the case's where they attempt everytime they think they may lose?

Do some research.
ET's can be applied for by any employee who has a genuine complaint, such as discrimination (of which there will hundreds of varieties - hence endless). They are not a one trick pony by a long shot.
The reason RM actually rarely settle isn't because they don't try, it's because the complainants tell them to piss off.

Why don't you point to the cases where they don't settle before (and haven't made any attempt to)?

Go on to "What do they know website" RM and their ET's.

By the way I made many of the requests. Unless you have been up against RM and their legal people you have no idea, an ET got a whole harder last year by the way. "Hundreds of varietys" your having a laugh if you think that and clearly have no idea about reasons for a possible ET.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

RM do settle before cases are heard.
They attempt it every time if they think they may be on dodgy ground.

And ET's aren't just there in case of dismissals, you can file ET's for an endless number of complaints.
Including discrimination, which is what this person has suffered.

An ET is not for endless complaints, again RM very rarely settle before, if you can point to the case's where they attempt everytime they think they may lose?

ANY normal company, business, union or man in the street, (if they can afford it) will get a legal opinion on their case. If Royal Mail are advised by their lawyers that the chance of winning their case is less than 50% then they would be stupid to go ahead with the case. Also in a lot of cases businesses will include in the settlement a silence or no publicity clause. Of course whether or not Royal Mail do this, or not, is open to conjecture.

However here is one case they did settle before ET http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Postie+wi ... 0248823661" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We have one thread where a postie claims RM settle out of court http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 15&t=30599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[General Mannerheim]

Go on to "What do they know website" RM and their ET's.

By the way I made many of the requests. Unless you have been up against RM and their legal people you have no idea, an ET got a whole harder last year by the way. "Hundreds of varietys" your having a laugh if you think that and clearly have no idea about reasons for a possible ET.
hantsman
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Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:33,am
Gender: Male

Look Royal Mail have a number of firms it has on a big retainer to defend claims(Wankmans being their favourite bully boys charging RM £200 for a 12 minute phone call robbing bastards ) it is pretty rare for Royal Mail per se to drop claims as it is dealt in most cases by their lawyers.

These lawyers in a lot of cases are not arsed if the claimant has a good case or not, as after all they still get there wedge if it goes to court/tribunal or is settled out of court/tribunal,in many cases they will even send one of their junior lawyers to defend the claim to gain experience.
Are there cases when they settle of course there is and they would be unable to not drop a few now and again and Teebs has given you a couple of examples.
And whilst there are not `hundreds of variety's` of discrimination there are quiet a few to go at on that subject alone and that's without being able to go for wages,losing your job,family friendly issues,breach of contract etc etc.

[UnhappyGremlin]

RM do settle before cases are heard.
They attempt it every time if they think they may be on dodgy ground.

And ET's aren't just there in case of dismissals, you can file ET's for an endless number of complaints.
Including discrimination, which is what this person has suffered.

An ET is not for endless complaints, again RM very rarely settle before, if you can point to the case's where they attempt everytime they think they may lose?

Do some research.
ET's can be applied for by any employee who has a genuine complaint, such as discrimination (of which there will hundreds of varieties - hence endless). They are not a one trick pony by a long shot.
The reason RM actually rarely settle isn't because they don't try, it's because the complainants tell them to piss off.

Why don't you point to the cases where they don't settle before (and haven't made any attempt to)?

Go on to "What do they know website" RM and their ET's.

By the way I made many of the requests. Unless you have been up against RM and their legal people you have no idea, an ET got a whole harder last year by the way. "Hundreds of varietys" your having a laugh if you think that and clearly have no idea about reasons for a possible ET.

I know 12 people who have filed ET's against RM (4 who PM'd on here and 8 personally) and every single one was offered a settlement BEFORE the case got to be heard. All turned it down.
I'm not saying they offered huge amounts, because they don't. You need to remember that just by the case being heard it will cost RM X amount. Therefore, from purely cost basis, to get a complainant to accept a lower amount than that is cheaper, and only a total moron for a client would refuse to save money, and bad publicity.

RM will not make EVERY bit of information relating to ET's public, it's bad publicity for one thing. Plus, every settled case before it's heard will likely be a withdrawal - hence the ET will never have happened.

ET's didn't get a whole lot harder at all. The system was changed to dissuade people from filing them. It is more difficult now, but not to a huge degree.

When I say there are hundreds of varieties, the key word is VARIETIES.
You may see, for example, discrimination of all kinds as one type. I don't.
There are many headings under discrimination that can be the basis of a complaint.
Race, gender, sexuality, nationality, age, disability, marital status, etc.

Then consider unfair treatment, not being given OT, being told you have to work certain days/that you can/can't have certain holidays because you do/don't have kids, that you are barred from certain duties, that someone else gets an allowance that you don't etc., that the manager gives special treatment to a sibling/spouse (even though they shouldn't be working under them anyway), what about being the only person ever asked to go to other offices? And I'm sure people on here could come up with loads more examples.

And under each, there are any number of sub headings which will be the basis of the complaint.
And to me, each is different, and very personal to the victim.

You are the one that has no idea what ET's can be applied to, or what they're for.
Obviously, there not for a drop of the hat. They are for serious problems and situations that have failed to have been dealt with 'in house' under procedures, and even possibly failed with mediation.
An hour with a solicitor will tell anyone if they have a decent case against their employer, and they will advise you whether or not to pursue it.

I have been under RM disciplinary proceedings, and sought the advice of a lawyer. So don't tell me what ET's are for.
What you or RM or anyone else may interpret what they should be used for happens to be, the reality is quite different.

[hantsman]

RM do settle before cases are heard.
They attempt it every time if they think they may be on dodgy ground.

And ET's aren't just there in case of dismissals, you can file ET's for an endless number of complaints.
Including discrimination, which is what this person has suffered.

An ET is not for endless complaints, again RM very rarely settle before, if you can point to the case's where they attempt everytime they think they may lose?

Do some research.
ET's can be applied for by any employee who has a genuine complaint, such as discrimination (of which there will hundreds of varieties - hence endless). They are not a one trick pony by a long shot.
The reason RM actually rarely settle isn't because they don't try, it's because the complainants tell them to piss off.

Why don't you point to the cases where they don't settle before (and haven't made any attempt to)?

Go on to "What do they know website" RM and their ET's.

By the way I made many of the requests. Unless you have been up against RM and their legal people you have no idea, an ET got a whole harder last year by the way. "Hundreds of varietys" your having a laugh if you think that and clearly have no idea about reasons for a possible ET.

I know 12 people who have filed ET's against RM (4 who PM'd on here and 8 personally) and every single one was offered a settlement BEFORE the case got to be heard. All turned it down.
I'm not saying they offered huge amounts, because they don't. You need to remember that just by the case being heard it will cost RM X amount. Therefore, from purely cost basis, to get a complainant to accept a lower amount than that is cheaper, and only a total moron for a client would refuse to save money, and bad publicity.

RM will not make EVERY bit of information relating to ET's public, it's bad publicity for one thing. Plus, every settled case before it's heard will likely be a withdrawal - hence the ET will never have happened.

ET's didn't get a whole lot harder at all. The system was changed to dissuade people from filing them. It is more difficult now, but not to a huge degree.

When I say there are hundreds of varieties, the key word is VARIETIES.
You may see, for example, discrimination of all kinds as one type. I don't.
There are many headings under discrimination that can be the basis of a complaint.
Race, gender, sexuality, nationality, age, disability, marital status, etc.

Then consider unfair treatment, not being given OT, being told you have to work certain days/that you can/can't have certain holidays because you do/don't have kids, that you are barred from certain duties, that someone else gets an allowance that you don't etc., that the manager gives special treatment to a sibling/spouse (even though they shouldn't be working under them anyway), what about being the only person ever asked to go to other offices? And I'm sure people on here could come up with loads more examples.

And under each, there are any number of sub headings which will be the basis of the complaint.
And to me, each is different, and very personal to the victim.

You are the one that has no idea what ET's can be applied to, or what they're for.
Obviously, there not for a drop of the hat. They are for serious problems and situations that have failed to have been dealt with 'in house' under procedures, and even possibly failed with mediation.
An hour with a solicitor will tell anyone if they have a decent case against their employer, and they will advise you whether or not to pursue it.

I have been under RM disciplinary proceedings, and sought the advice of a lawyer. So don't tell me what ET's are for.
What you or RM or anyone else may interpret what they should be used for happens to be, the reality is quite different.

Question for you, have you ever been in an ET against RM personally? RM is not the slightest bit interested in bad publicity, they don't care.

[Lincox]

Royal Mail do care. It is not in their interests especially now they are a privatised entity and answerable to share holders. This is why they are more likely to settle out of court and insist on a no disclosure clause. There have also been many times on this forum where claims against Royal Mail for negligence have been settled out of court following claims through Simpson Millar. It is not in the interest of any company and certainly the principal executive, to challenge every case with a dont care less attitude. The media and certainly other courier companies would make sure that this was brought into the public interest.

[dajomel]

Wow. Seems like there is still discussions/disagreements over whether RM settle or not despite there being evidence to say they do. Bizarre. Guess some people are just very loyal to RMG and others are realists. Well, I am surprised at how my grievance is going. Suspect changes will occur due to procedural inadequacies but not everything I am wanting/requesting so still a long way to go I suspect.

Thanks again for everyone that replied in response to my original question.

[Lincox]

Let us know when you have a result

[hantsman]

Wow. Seems like there is still discussions/disagreements over whether RM settle or not despite there being evidence to say they do. Bizarre. Guess some people are just very loyal to RMG and others are realists. Well, I am surprised at how my grievance is going. Suspect changes will occur due to procedural inadequacies but not everything I am wanting/requesting so still a long way to go I suspect.

Thanks again for everyone that replied in response to my original question.

Nobody said RM never ever settle. Gen Man has a good grasp of what RM can and do get up to.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Question for you, have you ever been in an ET against RM personally? RM is not the slightest bit interested in bad publicity, they don't care.

Why does that matter/what difference does it make?
RM, like all major companies, are very interested in publicity. Especially negative.
I would agree they have a poor attitude to staff, but they want the full extent of those details to stay in house as far as is possible.