Some questions for CWU

[bustedflush]

Hi, a few questions I ask on behalf of others as well as myself.
Our office is being revised in March and all Temp Contracts have been only renewed until then. Some will be binned-off, not all.

Q1. All temp contracts have to be paid the same as other employees etc. but does seniority apply like it does to the rest of the colleagues?

I.E. If 7 temps came after me and the office binned off 6, would I have a valid case to automatically keep my position on account of being there longer than the 6? (Those kept after the revision are being given permanent contracts according to the agreement the rep mentions.)

Q2. Shares: The shares are on a SIP basis, and rules allow them to be kept and cashed from day 1 (first 2k tax/NI free) on certain grounds like IHR, redundancy, death-in-service and transfer of business etc. Say a person has served a year, and wishes to be stay an employee but in the revision they are binned off their temp contract, then doesn't that effectively count as redundancy, therefore meaning they can cash their shares outside the normal 3/5 year rules?? (I know this is correct as I had a SIP share plan from a previous employer with the same rules and was allowed to cash them when made redundant well before the 3/5 year time limit.)

Q3. If serving over a year on temp contracts, would severance of a weeks wages be payable?

Thanks if you can help us on these points.

[centenaryman]

this isn't an answer to your exact questions BUT weve gone through a revision to park an loop back in August,,,,and yeah we had a fair few temps and rolling contracts and alike,,,we thought a lot would go,,,,and its been the opposite,,,,we now still taking staff on in the office,,,its crazy

[rehabron]

Hi, a few questions I ask on behalf of others as well as myself.
Our office is being revised in March and all Temp Contracts have been only renewed until then. Some will be binned-off, not all.

Q1. All temp contracts have to be paid the same as other employees etc. but does seniority apply like it does to the rest of the colleagues?

I.E. If 7 temps came after me and the office binned off 6, would I have a valid case to automatically keep my position on account of being there longer than the 6? (Those kept after the revision are being given permanent contracts according to the agreement the rep mentions.)

Q2. Shares: The shares are on a SIP basis, and rules allow them to be kept and cashed from day 1 (first 2k tax/NI free) on certain grounds like IHR, redundancy, death-in-service and transfer of business etc. Say a person has served a year, and wishes to be stay an employee but in the revision they are binned off their temp contract, then doesn't that effectively count as redundancy, therefore meaning they can cash their shares outside the normal 3/5 year rules?? (I know this is correct as I had a SIP share plan from a previous employer with the same rules and was allowed to cash them when made redundant well before the 3/5 year time limit.)

Q3. If serving over a year on temp contracts, would severance of a weeks wages be payable?

Thanks if you can help us on these points.

On Q1 Senioity would not apply on temp conraacts in respect to other full time contract colleagues but in the scenario that you gave if in your present temp contract you have not been involved in a disciplinary or an attendance procedure and your standard of work has not been questioned then as the longest serving of the other temp. conracts I would expect you to be first choice for a permanent contract.
Q2 You have answered your own question and woud not have to wait the 3 years before cashing in.
Q3: would expect a lieu of notice payment.

[bustedflush]

Thanks. The rep has got a list of temp contract workers now and has assured me last-in first-out. When the revision is done he says those remaining will hopefully be given permanent ones, well that's what the local CWU are pushing for.
As for my second question, I suppose what I was saying is "does termination of a contract count as redundancy for a temp as well as permanent?"

[dvbuk55]

Thanks. The rep has got a list of temp contract workers now and has assured me last-in first-out. When the revision is done he says those remaining will hopefully be given permanent ones, well that's what the local CWU are pushing for.
As for my second question, I suppose what I was saying is "does termination of a contract count as redundancy for a temp as well as permanent?"

TBH busted, I think your manager would look at the first in/out with a jaundiced eye - it could well depend on who has the best record of attendance/availability/flexibility rather than longevity and he is certainly not going to keep on a liability.

[rehabron]

Thanks. The rep has got a list of temp contract workers now and has assured me last-in first-out. When the revision is done he says those remaining will hopefully be given permanent ones, well that's what the local CWU are pushing for.
As for my second question, I suppose what I was saying is "does termination of a contract count as redundancy for a temp as well as permanent?"

Termination of a contract whether temp or permanent by the employer for no other substantial reason than for lack of work would be considered as redundancy.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I suppose what I was saying is "does termination of a contract count as redundancy for a temp as well as permanent?"

Yes after 2 years.

[fishtank]

Termination of a contract whether temp or permanent by the employer for no other substantial reason than for lack of work would be considered as redundancy.

It wouldn't necessarily.
If the fixed term contract contains a provision to end it early then it can be terminated at any time without sanction.
If it doesn't or you are not given the proper notice it may be considered breach of contract but only after two years continuous service would it be considered redundancy as opposed to dismissal.

[bustedflush]

So temps are basically going to lose their shares if terminated before 2 years.....
Hope the CWU has something to say about that.

[rehabron]

Termination of a contract whether temp or permanent by the employer for no other substantial reason than for lack of work would be considered as redundancy.

It wouldn't necessarily.
If the fixed term contract contains a provision to end it early then it can be terminated at any time without sanction.
If it doesn't or you are not given the proper notice it may be considered breach of contract but only after two years continuous service would it be considered redundancy as opposed to dismissal.

The 2 years continuous service is for receiving a redundancy payment in line with a permanent contract of employment unless I have read " Bustedflush" posting incorrectly the enquiry was not in relation to receiving a redundancy payment should his present temp contract be terminated but if he would be able to cash in his share allocation without having to wait the 3 year period as he no longer is employed by the business. If it happens that his temp contract is not renewed then he would in effect have been made redundant although not receiving the same redundancy rights as a person on a temporary contract with 104 weeks service but should be able to receive his shares allocation as he has left the business on good terms and not for any misconduct.

[bustedflush]

Termination of a contract whether temp or permanent by the employer for no other substantial reason than for lack of work would be considered as redundancy.

It wouldn't necessarily.
If the fixed term contract contains a provision to end it early then it can be terminated at any time without sanction.
If it doesn't or you are not given the proper notice it may be considered breach of contract but only after two years continuous service would it be considered redundancy as opposed to dismissal.

The 2 years continuous service is for receiving a redundancy payment in line with a permanent contract of employment unless I have read " Bustedflush" posting incorrectly the enquiry was not in relation to receiving a redundancy payment should his present temp contract be terminated but if he would be able to cash in his share allocation without having to wait the 3 year period as he no longer is employed by the business. If it happens that his temp contract is not renewed then he would in effect have been made redundant although not receiving the same redundancy rights as a person on a temporary contract with 104 weeks service but should be able to receive his shares allocation as he has left the business on good terms and not for any misconduct.

Yes, you are correct in your interpretation of my query. What would be the point of giving me or others shares then sacking us and taking them back? I am aware that temp contracts must have all the same conditions as permanent, i.e. bonus, pay and equipment by law. I am also aware that 4 x 6 months = exactly the same redundancy rights as permanent having done 24 months.
In effect a 6-month contract is little different from a permanent who has done less than 2 years. You can both be binned with a weeks notice.

I still can't get a straight answer to my question although I hope rehabron is correct. This point has never been cleared up beyond all doubt, the reps and managers don't know for sure and no information for temps was ever supplied when the shares were allocated.

[fishtank]

I still can't get a straight answer to my question although I hope rehabron is correct. This point has never been cleared up beyond all doubt, the reps and managers don't know for sure and no information for temps was ever supplied when the shares were allocated.

If you have any questions which have not been answered in this guide, you can get more information by phoning the dedicated Royal Mail Employee Share Offers Helpline on 0800
012 12 13

Worth a punt?

[rehabron]

Bustedflush this is an extract from the newspad of the Employee Share Ownership Centre. " PEOPLE LEAVING THE COMPANY WITHIN THREE YEARS OF ALLOCATION WILL FORFEIT THEIR SHARES UNLESS FOR A VALID REASON ( E.G. RETIREMENT, REDUNDANCY, OR SEROIUS LONG-TERM SICKNESS0
Hope that this now gives the answer to your query.

[fishtank]

I think he needs absolute clarification on where termination of a fixed term contract fits within that grouping.
It isn't strictly speaking redundancy until 2 years, It's actually classed as a dismissal although I think on the balance of probability it would still be protected in the same way.
The thing is he needs more than what people think and none of the literature spells it out in black and white which is why I would suggest he goes straight to the source.

[dvbuk55]

I think he needs absolute clarification on where termination of a fixed term contract fits within that grouping.
It isn't strictly speaking redundancy until 2 years, It's actually classed as a dismissal although I think on the balance of probability it would still be protected in the same way.
The thing is he needs more than what people think and none of the literature spells it out in black and white which is why I would suggest he goes straight to the source.

Will Moya know?