Has nobody thought of the Consequences of a "no" vote?

[pudz1224]

plastic union members who have no idea how to work for a private company??? well fish tank do u?? i think not. How is voting no ACTUALLY going to stop bullying etc. It won't to many of u on here have a blinkered attitude. Wake up and smell the coffee.Are u all delivery guys that like to finish before their time?? in processing and distribution we work to our time. And have done for years. Ive been in delivery I've had early finishes and been forced to going over my time when u feel under pressure to complete the walk. Voting No almost certainly won't change that. Its a culture in delivery with managers that needs addressed asap voting yes or no won't change that.it will take years and possibly a clean out of managers to change this. So we might as well vote yes and get something in our pockets. Where do we go if its a no vote?? AS people have said there is no plan b. things could regress.

[Chelseablue]

So pudz how else do the members who week in week out are subjected to bullying tactics meant to vote?. Just vote yes with a smile skip and a jump? The guys in our office who are not great at standing up for themselves have ended up coming in an hour or two early every day cause they've had enough.

[pudz1224]

voting no will change nothing,this is the problem in delivery and gone on for years(too long) that guys felt they had too come in early simply to complete on time. The jobs have been too big for years,worse now with this 2 man in a van caper. A no vote won't make royal mail change any time soon. My point is might as well vote yes get money in your pocket cause not a thing will change in a no vote. Especially if there is no plan b,we would just keep going one week to the next with nothing changing. U know it,most folk know it. Have a bit of balls vote yes and see what might happen,surely better than nothing

[fishtank]

plastic union members

Yes plastic union members.
Members who talk about being trade unionists but wouldn't know solidarity and unity if it bit them on the arse, Members who talk about protecting jobs while working their day off on docket, Members who talk about equality while using seniority to make sure they get the best holidays every year, Members who talk about "doing the job properly" while they sit on a comfy job watching the reserves run about like headless chickens. Members who would grass you up to the boss in a heartbeat if you're not "one of them", Members who look after number one but think that paying 3 quid a week makes them a trade unionist.

If you want to meet a few just head over to the CWU Facebook page, You'll even find some of them masquerading as reps even though they wouldn't know the difference between the Way Forward and the IR Framework.

I voted no because I don't believe that the offer on the table really differed that much from the original RM offer and my union told me that original offer was "derisory".

The pay offer moved fractionally.

The length of protections increased but I'm not convinced that these protections will hold up anyway and making them conditional on no national industrial action has really weakened our bargaining position for the next 5 years which will obviously include the 2016 pay review and the review of the MTSF agreement due in less than a year.

The failure to secure anything at all for delivery staff.

The involvement of mediation in the IR Framework which far from strengthening it will simply turn it into even more of a log jam than it is now making it almost impossible to take balloted industrial action and in the case of unballoted action push you back in the door before you even touch the gate.

The failure to secure anything at all for delivery staff (I know that's twice but it really is that embarrassing).

Feeling this way and knowing what I do about previous union reviews and studies do you still think I should have voted yes...based on nothing but your belief that we should just take the money and run?

You say a no vote won't change anything but that isn't true, In the highly unlikely situation of a no vote one thing would have to change overnight, the position of CWU HQ...and since it seems to be HQs unwillingness to address the delivery issues that appears to be a big part of the problem at least that would be a start on the long road to a solution.

[pudz1224]

fish tank i do agree with what u are saying,in a no vote particularly about union hq,i just have a gut feeling that a no vote and royal mail could make things worse than they are already for us all.

[POSTMAN]

The Fishmeister is on fire tonight!

Slight flaw in what you've said tonight tho about Facebook,you fail to mention the London area processing rep who thinks the B&H in deliveries is down to........those in deliveries.

Just sayin' like.

[Budfrog]

Yes plastic union members.
Members who talk about being trade unionists but wouldn't know solidarity and unity if it bit them on the arse, Members who talk about protecting jobs while working their day off on docket, Members who talk about equality while using seniority to make sure they get the best holidays every year, Members who talk about "doing the job properly" while they sit on a comfy job watching the reserves run about like headless chickens. Members who would grass you up to the boss in a heartbeat if you're not "one of them", Members who look after number one but think that paying 3 quid a week makes them a trade unionist.

Spot on

If you want to meet a few just head over to the CWU Facebook page, You'll even find some of them masquerading as reps even though they wouldn't know the difference between the Way Forward and the IR Framework.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum on that page ....

[tasam]

I've thought more about the consequences of a yes vote.

Pay is an issue but from a purely financial perspective this is a good deal, it's just a shame about the chains that are attached.

I've voted NO because I genuinely believe that this is a bad deal in the long term.

I don't care about the short term monetary gain but I do care about the long term health and well-being of my colleagues.

[jack]

Pay is an issue but from a purely financial perspective this is a good deal, it's just a shame about the chains that are attached.

What do they say "there's no smoke without fire"

[rainbowwarrior72]

I voted Yes and I'll tell you why. All thru the the CWU/Management long negotiations I could see the apathy and heard a lot of the old timers say they weren't go out even if they were called out. I think to be honest the CWU HQ are aware of this especially as a lot of delivery offices have no or very little union prescence. I think they seized this deal mainly because thye had no choice also I don't think RM can afford industrial chaos either so they were both looking for away out of this no win situation.

I was on deliveries for a few years and I was rep when we brought in the SDD back in 04 and I told the Delivery boys and girls back then they had to take their meal reliefs, do the job properly and stop cutting corners. Did they listen of course not Pay deals came in 2007 and 2010 and now the writing is on the wall where it is heading for deliveries. The big problem is that its the cuture of job and knock the Posties refuse to believe those day are over. I work now as a Distribution driver on Nights and see the Posties waiting outside at 5am even thru the office opens at 6am and if the office is open earlier they are in there throwing off.

Don't get me wrong something has gone wrong with the planning with a lot of these new revisions and Moyas view is that it is our fault. It is not the fault of the planners or the DOMs & DSMs fidding the figures but we are where we are and the Posties have got to take 50% of the blame for this as they chose not to listen to the CWU, they chose to use their cars, they chose to come in earlier and work for nothing, they chose to use over weight bags and sometimes I saw some Posties with 2 bags on their bike. The writing has been on the wall since at least 2003.

The biggest problem is that in a lot of delivery offices they don't even have a Rep and have chosen to use it as an excuse to shut their eyes when it was working for them. Now it is not they are accusing the CWU of betrayal. Whilst I agree that CWU HQ need to take a reality check our members also have to as well.

[ronpetetrevchris]

Sometimes you have to make a decision regardless of the consequences! We fell for a vague description of terms on delivery last time, what sort of fool would i be if i did it again. I choose the "deep blue sea this time".

[janitor]

I will say what i have said before, we need to end the life long job at the top for union executives, two terms then back to the shop floor, this needs to happen from top branch level to HQ,including Dave and Billy's job including the PEC, the problem is these people have been in the union hierarchy, so long they haven't a clue whats happening on the shop floor, this deal is wonderful if you don't need to work in it, or watch RM drive a coach and horses through it, after two years back on the floor you can stand again.

[dvbuk55]

Well by far the majority of yes voters are from Mail Centres and that's no surprise, many of them were "once in deliveries" but jumped ship long ago. I too was once a delivery officer, still work in a delivery office and I know for sure that I could not sustain a working life ON delivery. As for unity is strength, the union itself has destroyed any unity there was. They have consistently ignored deliveries nationally together with the seeming ignorance of how poorly members are represented from area to area. IMHO a NO vote would be a wake up call for the CWU if they want to be an independent entity in 5 years time.

[hubbahubba]

I voted Yes and I'll tell you why. All thru the the CWU/Management long negotiations I could see the apathy and heard a lot of the old timers say they weren't go out even if they were called out. I think to be honest the CWU HQ are aware of this especially as a lot of delivery offices have no or very little union prescence. I think they seized this deal mainly because thye had no choice also I don't think RM can afford industrial chaos either so they were both looking for away out of this no win situation.

I was on deliveries for a few years and I was rep when we brought in the SDD back in 04 and I told the Delivery boys and girls back then they had to take their meal reliefs, do the job properly and stop cutting corners. Did they listen of course not Pay deals came in 2007 and 2010 and now the writing is on the wall where it is heading for deliveries. The big problem is that its the cuture of job and knock the Posties refuse to believe those day are over. I work now as a Distribution driver on Nights and see the Posties waiting outside at 5am even thru the office opens at 6am and if the office is open earlier they are in there throwing off.

Don't get me wrong something has gone wrong with the planning with a lot of these new revisions and Moyas view is that it is our fault. It is not the fault of the planners or the DOMs & DSMs fidding the figures but we are where we are and the Posties have got to take 50% of the blame for this as they chose not to listen to the CWU, they chose to use their cars, they chose to come in earlier and work for nothing, they chose to use over weight bags and sometimes I saw some Posties with 2 bags on their bike. The writing has been on the wall since at least 2003.

The biggest problem is that in a lot of delivery offices they don't even have a Rep and have chosen to use it as an excuse to shut their eyes when it was working for them. Now it is not they are accusing the CWU of betrayal. Whilst I agree that CWU HQ need to take a reality check our members also have to as well.

[BernardBresslaw]

You voted yes for the money. Stop pretending otherwise.